On the variety of God proofs

[questfortruth]

Are you pantheist, satanist, atheist, pagan, etc?
To call True God as: "Flying Spaghetti Monster", "Pink Dragon in my garage", "tree", "table", "Nature", "Cosmos", "nothing-ness", "satan" is the "names calling fallacy". God likes God-approved names. The name calling fallacy mixes together two different things, e.g.: Spaghetti = Jesus Christ.
God is defined as "absolutely superior one". We are stronger than tree, thus we can not write "God=Tree", otherwise it is name-calling fallacy.

There are many God proofs. Let us start with "5 ways of Thomas A."
Five Ways (Aquinas) - Wikipedia

So the work of Thomas has be described as:

1. God is the First Cause (the events are caused), is the Lawmaker (there are laws), is the Reason (there is reasonable system of notions and definitions), and First Mover (the things are moving). The fuel of stars (hydrogen) is being burned out without compensation, so there must be Immaterial Beginning of Material World.

Many other proofs can be added.

2. The time machines do exist in Science, so the God is needed to solve their paradoxes. God and Reason can not be separated.

3. Let us calculate probability of Allknowing Being. He -by definition- knows all, thus, He knows about own existence. Therefore, the probability of Him is exact 100 percent.

4. The existence of God is dogma. A dogma is the absolute true knowledge. Thus, the God is proved among theists. According to theists, the blasphemers have not disproved any of the proofs. The theists are forbidden to lie, thus, the liars are the blasphemers of the proofs.

5. If one finds a watch in forest, he is exactly 100% sure, that it came from Watchmaker with Free-will (by definition of a human). Thus, there is Nature-maker in our sub-conscious knowledge.

The ontological proofs, e.g.,

6. The work of Kant can be described following:
The Free Will is obvious (otherwise there can not be the prisoners), so, there is God.

7. The work of Anselm gives:
we can think of infinitely influential being. If He does not exist in outside reality, then He is not infinitely influential. Then because of law of non-contradiction, the being in our mind lives in outside reality.

FROM DISCUSSION:

1) Proofs rest on unverifiable premises?! You have just a wishful thinking fallacy.

2) The "circles of life" does not apply the circular time: the Beginning of Universe is not the End of it. To power the circle of life a fuel is needed.

3) According to Einstein, the falling body is in weightless-ness, thus, there is no force of gravity in General Relativity.

4) What is knowledge? It is an any proven thing. Proven to God. So, the God is Knowledge.

5) "God of the Gaps" will remain forever in Physics. Because there is Theology in top Universes: the Science is not only the Physics. Science is the Quest for Knowledge, and faith is the faithfulness to Knowledge. Thus, the Gaps in Physics are filled with information from Theology. So, there are no gaps in Reality.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

You put this is the wrong section, as it clearly belongs in the joke section.

 

[YmirGF]

4. The existence of God is dogma. A dogma is the absolute true knowledge. Thus, the God is proved among theists. According to theists, the blasphemers have not disproved any of the proofs. The theists are forbidden to lie, thus, the liars are the blasphemers of the proofs.

Holy fabrication, Batman!

 

[Rational Agnostic]

There are many God proofs. Let us start with "5 ways of Thomas A."
Five Ways (Aquinas) - Wikipedia

So the work of Thomas has be described as:

1. God is the First Cause (the events are caused), is the Lawmaker (there are laws), is the Reason (there is reasonable system of notions and definitions), and First Mover (the things are moving). The fuel of stars (hydrogen) is being burned out without compensation, so there must be Immaterial Beginning of Material World.

Many other proofs can be added.

2. The time machines do exist in Science, so the God is needed to solve their paradoxes. God and Reason can not be separated.

3. Let us calculate probability of Allknowing Being. He -by definition- knows all, thus, He knows about own existence. Therefore, the probability of Him is exact 100 percent.

4. The existence of God is dogma. A dogma is the absolute true knowledge. Thus, the God is proved among theists. According to theists, the blasphemers have not disproved any of the proofs. The theists are forbidden to lie, thus, the liars are the blasphemers of the proofs.

5. If one finds a watch in forest, he is exactly 100% sure, that it came from Watchmaker with Free-will (by definition of a human). Thus, there is Nature-maker in our sub-conscious knowledge.

The ontological proofs, e.g.,

6. The work of Kant can be described following:
The Free Will is obvious (otherwise there can not be the prisoners), so, there is God.

7. The work of Anselm gives:
we can think of infinitely influential being. If He does not exist in outside reality, then He is not infinitely influential. Then because of law of non-contradiction, the being in our mind lives in outside reality.

All of the so-called "proofs" for god's existence have been refuted because they are logically unsound because they rest on unverifiable premises. Of course god's non-existence has never been proven either, but neither has the non-existence of the tooth fairy.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Hmm. I've always been suker for these things. I haven't got anyone to talk with me throughout the whole argument. Always cut short. Shrugs.

1. God is the First Cause (the events are caused), is the Lawmaker (there are laws), is the Reason (there is reasonable system of notions and definitions), and First Mover (the things are moving). The fuel of stars (hydrogen) is being burned out without compensation, so there must be Immaterial Beginning of Material World.

Nope. Try it out.

Your parents aren't the first cause that created you. Your grandparents aren't the first cause of your parents and so forth on back. When you die, you body lives on in other forms of the environment. Stars form and explode. Things are created from pre-existing things. Think of life as a circle.

Circles do not have a starting point.

What is in motion is called karma. Our actions. What we did in the past affects us today. What we do today affects us tomorrow. We are in an ever ending cycle of causes and affects. The ball rolls down hill by gravity. No one is constantly pushing the ball because there is no "top of the hill" and there is no bottom.

The "mover" if you want to use that word is energy not god.

2. The time machines do exist in Science, so the God is needed to solve their paradoxes. God and Reason can not be separated.

You have to explain this. This proves nothing.

3. Let us calculate probability of Allknowing Being. He -by definition- knows all, thus, He knows about own existence. Therefore, the probability of Him is exact 100 percent.

Same as this. Now hows energy, the motion and action, know anything?

What is "knowledge" to energy that every living and thing needs to survive? Can you define energy's brain process?

4. The existence of God is dogma. A dogma is the absolute true knowledge. Thus, the God is proved among theists. According to theists, the blasphemers have not disproved any of the proofs. The theists are forbidden to lie, thus, the liars are the blasphemers of the proofs.

Total bias and negativity. Dogma are just teachings. It has nothing to do with god. A cook's dogma is his recipe book and the tips and tricks his parents taught him in cooking favorite foods.

5. If one finds a watch in forest, he is exactly 100% sure, that it came from Watchmaker with Free-will (by definition of a human). Thus, there is Nature-maker in our sub-conscious knowledge.

Watches don't exist. They are parts of the earth shaped, form, cut, and heated and so forth to create what we know of as a watch. If the watch recycles into the environment after X amount of years, there would be nothing left to exist but the natural materials the watch was made from. Everything is always forming and changing. Energy is what does this. Energy is not a creator. Watches don't have creators (we don't create the material for the watch) we just use already existed materials and made a watch from those things. Modern chemistry.

Will is a being able to make a choice. Free will is the ability to make that choice without restrictions. It says nothing about a creator and nothing about the watch. Animals have free will. They can either eat the rabbit or eat the deer. They go by their senses etc. Something humans are loosing out off. That's why the bias. Eastern faiths don't have that and some believe in gods. They get in touch with their senses and how god or so have you moves through them. Not the First cause but A cause.

The work of Kant can be described following: The Free Will is obvious (otherwise there can not be the prisoners), so, there is God.

Free will is an illusion of control.

7. The work of Anselm gives: we can think of infinitely influential being. If He does not exist in outside reality, then He is not infinitely influential. Then because of law of non-contradiction, the being in our mind lives in outside reality.

The fact the "being" is in the mind is proof that it doesn't live outside of it. Everything we interpret from gods to what is the difference between a chair and a couch is the thought process of the mind. When something happens to the brain, the mind doesn't function as it should. When someone has a frontal lobe injury, his or her impulses gets the best of him. If god gave free will, and god is perfect, that he could adjust his impulses to be his choice. Since it's not from god but from the brain, impulses like intentional actions are process of the brain not god.

Everything we know about god (energy or unexplained experiences or gut feeling or) are interpretations from the brain. Someone who has grown up with intellectual difficulties may not know god because he or she lacks the language skills to put concepts together of an unknown or invisible person. If anything, the god he knows is gratitude or love from his caretakers.

All psychological. Nothing independent of each other. Motions make one thing interdependent on another. Nothing dies just decays and recycles and changes forms. Free will isn't inherit. Some people are born without free will because their brain can't make decisions to act independently. Others with neurological conditions don't have free will one hundred percent of the time because those with seizures are at the free will of our neurons not our thoughts.

There is no first cause. The mover is not a person its energy. We make decisions based on how our brain processes and if it can. Everything works dependent on each other and everything is empty when we stop attaching meaning to things, like eternal, that in itself is not eternal but ever changing in nature.

 

[idav]

Best proof of a god is in the laws of nature. This universe is a closed system and as such nothing can be created or destroyed in this system, which means all that exists was not created, it had to already exist. Pantheism reconciles it by pointing at existence as god. If the laws of nature are beyond creation, then existence is its own God, which is the same as saying God exists in reality.

 

[WalterTrull]

God is proved to me because we talk. I mean we are seemingly separate entities but we communicate, - impossible. A thing can be aware only of itself. Cue the trumpets!!

 

[David T]

All of the so-called "proofs" for god's existence have been refuted because they are logically unsound because they rest on unverifiable premises. Of course god's non-existence has never been proven either, but neither has the non-existence of the tooth fairy.

Gawd can't help myself. Nature how difficult is this really. Please you understand zippo except what is stupid. Very clearly you understand stupid at least 1/2 of it precisely

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Best proof of a god is in the laws of nature. This universe is a closed system and as such nothing can be created or destroyed in this system, which means all that exists was not created, it had to already exist. Pantheism reconciles it by pointing at existence as god. If the laws of nature are beyond creation, then existence is its own God, which is the same as saying God exists in reality.

Did you prove that God exist or did you just prove that you can swap words around?

 

[WalterTrull]

Gawd can't help myself. Nature how difficult is this really. Please you understand zippo except what is stupid. Very clearly you understand stupid at least 1/2 of it precisely

Sapient musings are often misunderstood... I'm told.

 

[idav]

Did you prove that God exist or did you just prove that you can swap words around?

If it walks quacks like a duck etc.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

If it walks quacks like a duck etc.

So your proof of God is nothing but semantics. Unless of course you have actual hard evidence? No? I didn't think so.

 

[idav]

So your proof of God is nothing but semantics. Unless of course you have actual hard evidence? No? I didn't think so.

It's more than semantics to say the universe is an eternal being that created itself. That by definition makes universe God. The premise is the law of thermodynamics.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

It's more than semantics to say the universe is an eternal being that created itself. That by definition makes universe God. The premise is the law of thermodynamics.

So let me get this straight... All you have is argument and you have no hard evidence of God, is that about right?

 

[Jeremiahcp]

We could fill an entire library with arguments for God's existence, but yet there is not a single speck of real evidence, at some point we have to move beyond concepts and words and into the actual.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Try building a watch using fractals.

Lol

 

[idav]

So let me get this straight... All you have is argument and you have no hard evidence of God, is that about right?

I don't think the purpose of this thread is hard evidence but suffice to say what scientists are finding is hard evidence, but they will never use a god label even if they found a timeless powerful being. I am claiming science has found such a being. But no, God hasn't knocked on my door so I can take a picture to present hard evidence.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

I don't think the purpose of this thread is hard evidence but suffice to say what scientists are finding is hard evidence, but they will never use a god label even if they found a timeless powerful being. I am claiming science has found such a being. But no, God hasn't knocked on my door so I can take a picture to present hard evidence.

Well I need hard evidence. I have already heard all the arguments, each explain 50 different ways, it is long past time to cough up something real.

 

[idav]

Well I need hard evidence. I have already heard all the arguments, each explain 50 different ways, it is long past time to cough up something real.

Science has been practically tripping over the evidence for the past 100 years testing special relativity and with all the CERN work.

 

[LuisDantas]

Let us start with "5 ways of Thomas A."
Five Ways (Aquinas) - Wikipedia

Those never deserved being called evidence, let alone proof.

At their best, they are statements of aesthetical preference.

(...)
The ontological proofs, e.g.,

6. The work of Kant can be described following:
The Free Will is obvious (otherwise there can not be the prisoners), so, there is God.

That makes no sense whatsoever.

7. The work of Anselm gives:
we can think of infinitely influential being. If He does not exist in outside reality, then He is not infinitely influential. Then because of law of non-contradiction, the being in our mind lives in outside reality.

What do we call things that "exist outside reality" again?

Perhaps "non-real"? Perhaps false or fictional?

So much for proofs for the existence of God.