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On the Feasibility of State Religion:

Leftimies

Dwelling in the Principle
Yeah, what do you think? I kinda have love-hate relationship towards this idea...on the other hand, I would love nothing quite as much as living in Confucian State, dedicated to heavenly virtue, study and worship of Heaven. However, an individual cannot be forced on something...it was precisely religious freedom that gave me the chance to convert into Confucianism.

Here's a quote from an source-backed wikipedia article regarding the rise of Religious Confucianism, and, Confucian Fundamentalism:

"Since 2003 the debate seems to have taken a turn.[81] Large numbers of intellectuals and students are converting to Confucianism,[81] making it a strong intellectual force.[36] A more and more influent movement among them is working to turn Confucianism into a religion (and a movement of its own, independent from the Chinese folk religion), to obtain recognisation by the Chinese government, and even make Confucianism the official state religion of China. Scholar Fenggang Yang calls this movement Confucian Fundamentalism.[81]

In 2003 the Confucian intellectual Kang Xiaoguang published a cultural nationalist manifesto in which he made four suggestions: Confucian education must enter official education at any level, from elementary to high school; the state must establish Confucianism as the state religion by law; Confucian religion must enter the daily life of ordinary people through standardization and development of doctrines, rituals, organisations, churches and activity sites; the Confucian religion must be spread through NGOs.[81]

All the suggestions appear to be being gradually implemented. Since the Jiashen Manifesto published in 2004, intellectuals are calling for a return to the Chinese traditional culture. The Government has since then supported the revival of the Chinese traditional religions, holidays and celebrations. In 2005 the Center for the Study of Confucian Religion was established, and scholars who criticised Confucianism as a religion lost their influence.[81] Also in 2005 Guoxue education started to be implemented in schools of any level. Being well received by the population, even Confucian "televangelists" started to appear on television since 2006.[81]"


Does this spark positive or negative thoughts in ya? In either case, tell us all what you think and why! ^^
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
State religion looks unadvisable to me, all the more so at this time in history when worthy movements can be made widespread without governamental support.
 

Leftimies

Dwelling in the Principle
State religion looks unadvisable to me, all the more so at this time in history when worthy movements can be made widespread without governamental support.

I agree that state religion kinda equals begging for trouble, because not everyone is ever gonna agree on one religion, or being part of a religion in general. Such a shame.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
If there's to be a state religion, can I be the one to impose it upon them all?
Such power to force my beliefs upon others would be fun.
How severely would I be able to punish reprobates?
Could I even hold an auto de fe?
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
State religion? Nope, extremely bad idea. The potential for abuse is too great. Bad, bad idea in a country as diverse and populous as the US. We've had well over 200 years of religious freedom (not always religious tolerance, though; we can be as intolerant as the next country) and freedom from religion should we so choose. Because the US is predominately Christian, Christianity would most likely be declared the state religion.

Let's do a thought experiment, remote as it may be: if the First Amendment were overturned, and we had vacillations about religion like the former USSR and the PRC, it would not bode well for those of us who practice other religions, should it be discovered. There could definitely be a problem if I had to call 911 and the police arrived, or they had other probable cause to enter my house. Hmm... maybe it's not so far-fetched after all. Until 2003 and the Lawrence v. Texas Supreme Court case overturned all state sodomy laws, Texas police had probable cause (via a false report from a vindictive neighbor) to invade an apartment and arrest the two men who were in bed together having sex.
 

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
Yeah, what do you think? I kinda have love-hate relationship towards this idea...on the other hand, I would love nothing quite as much as living in Confucian State, dedicated to heavenly virtue, study and worship of Heaven. However, an individual cannot be forced on something...it was precisely religious freedom that gave me the chance to convert into Confucianism.

Here's a quote from an source-backed wikipedia article regarding the rise of Religious Confucianism, and, Confucian Fundamentalism:

"Since 2003 the debate seems to have taken a turn.[81] Large numbers of intellectuals and students are converting to Confucianism,[81] making it a strong intellectual force.[36] A more and more influent movement among them is working to turn Confucianism into a religion (and a movement of its own, independent from the Chinese folk religion), to obtain recognisation by the Chinese government, and even make Confucianism the official state religion of China. Scholar Fenggang Yang calls this movement Confucian Fundamentalism.[81]

In 2003 the Confucian intellectual Kang Xiaoguang published a cultural nationalist manifesto in which he made four suggestions: Confucian education must enter official education at any level, from elementary to high school; the state must establish Confucianism as the state religion by law; Confucian religion must enter the daily life of ordinary people through standardization and development of doctrines, rituals, organisations, churches and activity sites; the Confucian religion must be spread through NGOs.[81]

All the suggestions appear to be being gradually implemented. Since the Jiashen Manifesto published in 2004, intellectuals are calling for a return to the Chinese traditional culture. The Government has since then supported the revival of the Chinese traditional religions, holidays and celebrations. In 2005 the Center for the Study of Confucian Religion was established, and scholars who criticised Confucianism as a religion lost their influence.[81] Also in 2005 Guoxue education started to be implemented in schools of any level. Being well received by the population, even Confucian "televangelists" started to appear on television since 2006.[81]"


Does this spark positive or negative thoughts in ya? In either case, tell us all what you think and why! ^^

Every time a state religion was imposed, it always ended VERY badly for members of other religions--I really shouldn't have to recount the fate of the Pagans, Jews, Muslims and non-believers in the Christian empires. It often ended up badly even for those following the state religion, as their religion is changed and manipulated at the drop of a hat to suit the government's whims. We Orthodox had plenty of time and experience to figure that out under the Byzantine and Russian Empires. The Catholics are just beginning to figure it out as well.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
There was a long period of British history when the Church of England was not only "Established" as the state religion but was compulsory. All other religions were persecuted.
It is only since WW2 that all religions have had freedom of expression.
Even to day the Church of England is the Established Religion. It is the only church that can marry or hold funerals with out a civil registrar present.

I would not like it to get back its ancient powers of torture, imprisonment and capital punishment, for heresy, and lesser punishments for non attendance or non payment of tithes.

I might find life very difficult.
 

Sir Doom

Cooler than most of you
I don't even particularly like the idea of a 'state' in the first place. A state religion is just another filter of exclusion on what is already a filter of exclusion.
 

Leftimies

Dwelling in the Principle
Hmm...interesting. The chinese dynasties that in past put the most effort and established Confucian system and heaven worship as state standard prospered in unmatched manner. Anyone who could read could participate in state running, in theory. Personal merit was only thing that came to make difference, bloodline lost its prestiege.

For me, that age is quite different from what i hear here. Hmm...i must do re-researching, though i am pretty sure my current account was accurate. Then again, I'm probably biased.
 

Sir Doom

Cooler than most of you
Are we talking about the Han dynasty specifically? Or the entire era of Confucian influence from the Spring and Autumn Period to the Republic of China?
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
If there is one thing my fellowman is NOT capable of doing.......
it's forming a consensus.

Especially here in America.

Common religion has held by law?.....not likely.

It would immediately take aim at everything common.
Taxes, health care, working hours, benefits all around.....etc.

And if the rich man was held to common law.....religious law!.....
Oh My God!
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Hmm...interesting. The chinese dynasties that in past put the most effort and established Confucian system and heaven worship as state standard prospered in unmatched manner. Anyone who could read could participate in state running, in theory. Personal merit was only thing that came to make difference, bloodline lost its prestiege.

For me, that age is quite different from what i hear here. Hmm...i must do re-researching, though i am pretty sure my current account was accurate. Then again, I'm probably biased.

Sounds nice. And quite different from current society, too.

There are probably elements of that situation that we would do well in emulating. But I don't think that establishing a State Religion is one of them, at least not as a first step.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
I agree that state religion kinda equals begging for trouble, because not everyone is ever gonna agree on one religion, or being part of a religion in general. Such a shame.

Why is it a shame?

Whenever you get state religions, you end up with forced religion, and no choice.

The article said it would be integrated into schools = religious indoctrination.

People should always be free to make their own choice for, or against, any religion.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
I wouldn't know anything about that.

Even though I'm not (EO) Christian anymore, I still follow the doings and shenanigans, especially of the OCA (to which I belonged), which has been rife with financial scandal and is on its fourth Metropolitan Primate in 10 years (three of whom resigned due to "unusual circumstances"). The late Patriarch Alexey (of Moscow) was having fits and filing protests with the Vatican over the Vatican establishing RC dioceses in Russia.
 
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