On the apportionment/status of the spirit among Abr. relig.

[LAGoff]

Is the N.T. saying that there is no spirit in Judaism? That Judaism is just law and no spirit? Because if you agree that there is spirit in Judaism(i.e. that I can carry out the commandments with/and in the spirit), then why should I become a Christian? It seems by my reading of the N.T. that the spirit left Judaism and went to Jesus' followers; but I know that while doing the commandments I feel a sense of holliness. I call this feeling living in the kingdom of heaven(Jehovah's kingdom).

I would appreciate your views on the apportionment/status now(and before and after Jesus) of the spirit/kingdom of heaven/God in relation to Judaism(me), Christianity(you), and Islam.

Thank you,

Leonard.

p.s. I don't care to debate anything here. I am just looking for clarification of how Christianity views what I said above in light of the withering criticisms of Jesus against the Pharisees.

 

[Lucian]

You are following what Jesus has commanded even if you wouldn't want to admit it, that's where the holiness is. Jesus is, after all, a Jewish man. When Jesus asked a Jewish man what the commandments were, and he gave his answer, Jesus said that he was not far from the Kingdom of God.

The reason why I think you should be a Christian is because that's where the truth is. That doesn't mean leaving Judaism behind. If you don't believe in the truth, then you should not be a Christian, it's that simple. If you believe it, you are a Christian, or at the very least a catechumen. Sorry if that sounds provocative. God is universal, and God affects the world everywhere with his spirit, not only in some silly buildings with onions and crosses on top of them, although Christians are God's chosen people, and will inherit eternal life.

Hopefully that helps.

 

[LAGoff]

You are following what Jesus has commanded even if you wouldn't want to admit it, that's where the holiness is. Jesus is, after all, a Jewish man. When Jesus asked a Jewish man what the commandments were, and he gave his answer, Jesus said that he was not far from the Kingdom of God.

The reason why I think you should be a Christian is because that's where the truth is. That doesn't mean leaving Judaism behind. If you don't believe in the truth, then you should not be a Christian, it's that simple. If you believe it, you are a Christian, or at the very least a catechumen. Sorry if that sounds provocative. God is universal, and God affects the world everywhere with his spirit, not only in some silly buildings with onions and crosses on top of them, although Christians are God's chosen people, and will inherit eternal life.

Hopefully that helps.

Thanks Lucian,

I just would like for you to draw out for me more fully the implications of four words/phrases/terms/sentences you used.
Again, as per the the rules of this forum, I offer the following questions not in the spirit of debate, but only in order to get input in order for me to move forward in my understanding of how to interface/reconcile/approach areas of commonality and dissimilarity between these two great religions.

#1. You wrote that "that's where holiness is".
What is the "is"? It seems by the context ("following what Jesus commanded") that "it" are the Commandments.

#2. You wrote that "Jesus said that he was not far from the kingdom of God".
I define the kingdom of God/heaven according to first century rabbinic Judaism as the rule of God over a person who keeps or begins to keep the written and oral laws.
Are you saying - as per #1 - that "that's where holiness is", as "Jesus is, after all, a Jewish man"?

#3. When you wrote that "that is where truth is", one usually associates truth with all or nothing(i.e. 2+2=4; not 5 or 4.1). So by this definition of truth, there would be no truth in any other religion(i.e. Christianity would be 100% true; Judaism 0% true).
Or are you saying that Judaism has - relative to Christianity- less truth? If so, what do you feel is the apportionment of "relative truth" among the other religions?(e.g. Christianity 100%, Judaism 50%, Islam 25%, Buddhism 12.5%).

#4. How exactly can I "not leave Judaism behind" if I become a Christian? Or do you mean by this something along the lines of what some of the apostles(Paul, Peter) counseled to Jewish Christians(e.g. keeping kosher) if that would make them feel better(i.e. "not [feeling that they are] leaving Judaism behind"?

 

[Lucian]

Don't worry, just ask what you have in mind! I may not have answers but I'll try with my limited understanding.

1. That is what I mean.

2. Jesus followed the commandments since he's a Jewish man, and following the commandments is holy. So the holiness is in following the commandments.

3. Of course Judaism has truth to it, but, as an example, the Jewish religion does not in the "orthodox" form accept Jesus. It's impossible to put percentages or portions like that, especially since I don't know everything about other religions. I've read some things about Buddha that are very wise, and yet other things I consider just plain wrong. I don't accept reincarnation for example. And Muhammed is correct about monotheism, but wrong in saying that we are not God's children, or that Jesus did not really die on the cross. If, for example, a different religion teaches about the same love that Jesus taught, then it's safe to say that teaching is true.

4. Pretty much so, yes.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Is the N.T. saying that there is no spirit in Judaism? That Judaism is just law and no spirit?

No, it is not; and remember it is a set of books not a single book. There is also no standard for interpreting it.

I would appreciate your views on the apportionment/status now(and before and after Jesus) of the spirit/kingdom of heaven/God in relation to Judaism(me), Christianity(you), and Islam.

Thank you,

Leonard.

p.s. I don't care to debate anything here. I am just looking for clarification of how Christianity views what I said above in light of the withering criticisms of Jesus against the Pharisees.

The 'Withering criticisms of the Pharisees' are made in a story about Jesus. He says they are 'Vipers' but does not explain specifically why. I believe that Jesus refers to their method of making disciples. There are many textual evidences in the gospel stories, and he pointedly tells his own disciples that he won't be teaching them everything they need to know.