Brian Stoin
Member
You misunderstood...I said the opposite. Nobody knows for sure who will be saved on an individual basis. It would be wrong if anyone were to say "only JWs will be saved".
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On that Note, JWs I have a question for you
- Thread starter Unveiled Artist
- Start date
No. You should consider the meaning of your post. You said this:
It says that people who have not been reached by Jehovah's Witnesses and do not know their Bible won't be destroyed. Because?
Oh God I wish I knew English.
The meaning of the post is this: No one can say for sure who will be saved and who won't be saved. I agree!
One reason given is this: It wouldn't be right for God to destroy someone who had no opportunity to meet Jehovah's Witnesses and know The Bible their way.
Now we need some math.
Does salvation equal knowing Jehovah's Witnesses and The Bible? That is what the words say. What words?
These words: "it is reasonable to conclude that it would be considered an injustice if someone were to be destroyed who lives somewhere where there are no JWs and who may not have access to the Bible."
If someone lives near the Jehovah's Witnesses and has a Bible it would be fair for God to destroy that person. But it he doesn't then it would NOT be fair for God to destroy that person.
THAT is what the words SAY.
The meaning of the post is this: No one can say for sure who will be saved and who won't be saved. I agree!
One reason given is this: It wouldn't be right for God to destroy someone who had no opportunity to meet Jehovah's Witnesses and know The Bible their way.
Now we need some math.
Does salvation equal knowing Jehovah's Witnesses and The Bible? That is what the words say. What words?
These words: "it is reasonable to conclude that it would be considered an injustice if someone were to be destroyed who lives somewhere where there are no JWs and who may not have access to the Bible."
If someone lives near the Jehovah's Witnesses and has a Bible it would be fair for God to destroy that person. But it he doesn't then it would NOT be fair for God to destroy that person.
THAT is what the words SAY.
Brian Stoin
Member
[/QUOTE]
sorry if my wording made it difficult to follow. sometimes I don't express my thoughts in a clear manner.
You are expressing the thoughts of the governing body just fine. They say a person must do good to them to be saved. Now you are saying it too. What are your own thoughts about it? Do you believe that a person must hear from the JWs and believe the Bible like the JWs teach it to be saved?
Also, I wasn't posting about YOU knowing English. It is obvious to me, after all the time I spend communicating it, that most people have no clue what I am talking about. It is ME who must hone her English skills.
Have you not heard from The Lady yet about not speaking to me?
McBell
Resident Sourpuss
Except you have not shown it is a fact.
Thus far it is nothing more than a bold empty claim made by you.
Another belief.
Another belief.
Yet another belief.
You do know that beliefs are not facts, right?
Brian Stoin
Member
I will always express either my own views on matters according to what the Bible says, or quote directly from the Bible. I don't like quoting others' expressions or feelings because it could get confusing.
That having been said, salvation is dependent on an individual's standing before God.
So will you retract your statement about the apparent need for individuals to be contacted by Jehovah's Witnesses in order for them to be saved?
You implied by your statement, that you choose to ignore going forward, that God will not destroy anyone who did not have the opportunity to hear the Jehovah's Witnesses and to know what The Bible says.
OK?
Please. It is what you said. Is it what you meant?
According to The Watchtower anyone who hears the Word of God according to the Jehovah's Witnesses and rejects it will not get everlasting life and will be destroyed forever at God's Judgement Day. True?
BUT some people do not "get a witness" so it would not be fair for them to be found guilty of rejecting something that they do not know. It is what Brian Stoin said. Is it what you meant?
BUT some people do not "get a witness" so it would not be fair for them to be found guilty of rejecting something that they do not know. It is what Brian Stoin said. Is it what you meant?
Brian Stoin
Member
Perhaps I hadn't made my thoughts clear (told you I can be confusing). I didn't intend for anyone to get the idea that they must be contacted by JWs to be saved.
Sorry if that is what you thought I was implying.
Many, many people are not contacted by them, but I wouldn't dare suggest that they will die at Armageddon.
So Jehovah's Witnesses are not going door to door so that people will be safe at Armageddon. Is that right?
I learned that the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses is like Noah's ark which we must get on to be saved. There is a Jehovah's Witnesses on the forum who says to be saved a person must eat at God's table which is with the Jehovah's Witnesses. Are you not one mind with her?
Brian Stoin
Member
False...I personally don't know of such a claim.
Correct
The fact is, nobody knows how these events will play out. One thing is certain, God will not destroy anyone who deserves life.
Think of the Ninevites when Jonah was sent to warn them...they were a horribly wicked and violent society. Nineveh was known as "The City of Bloodshed". Yet God sent someone to warn them of their imminent destruction, they responded, and they were spared. The fact remains, they were given the opportunity to repent. We can surmise that sometime before Armageddon, each and every individual on the planet will have a chance to repent. Who carries out this assignment remains to be seen. How it is accomplished remains to be seen. Any attempt to know how the future plays out is beyond our (human) ability.
Brian Stoin
Member
JWs go door to door to start Bible Studies and teach Bible truths. Of course, they hope that their students join them in their congregation, becoming Witnesses themselves. It would be presumptuous on the part of a Witness to tell someone "unless you get baptized as a Witness, you will die at Armageddon".
Yes, in Noah's day, people were warned of the flood. Today too, people are warned of the events that lie ahead.
Again, the bottom line is that an individual's salvation is between that person and God.
The claim comes from the Watchtower interpretation of Matthew 25:31 - 46. There it says the sheep are they who do good to the least one of Jesus' brothers and they will be saved. The goats are they that did not do good to the least one of Jesus' brothers and they go off into destruction. The governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses have said that it means them. I think you have said you are a JW. Is that correct? How can you not know it?
I understand that. But then why does the Watchtower compare the congregation to Noah's Ark.? Are you new?
Brian Stoin
Member
JWs are not in this separating work. Jesus is the one who separates the Sheep from the Goats
Brian Stoin
Member
No, I am not new.
The truth can be compared to Noah's ark in a broad sense. Doesn't necessarily mean that "unless you get baptized as a Witness you will be destroyed".
OK. I am baptized. Do you agree that I shall be found guilty because I left?
Brian Stoin
Member
Here is an excerpt from the Watchtower from 2013, July 15 edition...sorry to give you so much text:
WHEN DOES JESUS JUDGE THE SHEEP AND THE GOATS?
10. In the past, what was our understanding of the timing of the judgment of the sheep and the goats?
10 Consider now the timing of another part of Jesus’ prophecy—the parable of the judgment of the sheep and the goats. (Matt. 25:31-46) Previously, we thought that the judging of people as sheep or goats would take place during the entire period of the last days from 1914 onward. We concluded that those who rejected the Kingdom message and who died before the start of the great tribulation would die as goats—without the hope of a resurrection.
11. Why could the judgment of people as sheep or goats not have started in 1914?
11 In the mid-1990’s, The Watchtower reexamined Matthew 25:31, which states: “When the Son of man arrives in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne.” It was noted that Jesus became King of God’s Kingdom in 1914, but he did not “sit down on his glorious throne” as Judge of “all the nations.” (Matt. 25:32; compare Daniel 7:13.) However, the parable of the sheep and the goats describes Jesus primarily as Judge. (Read Matthew 25:31-34, 41, 46.) Since Jesus was not yet active as Judge of all nations in 1914, his judgment of people as sheep or goats could not have started in that year.* When, then, will Jesus’ judgment begin?
12. (a) When will Jesus for the first time act as Judge of all nations? (b) What events are described at Matthew 24:30, 31 and Matthew 25:31-33, 46?
12 Jesus’ prophecy about the last days reveals that he will for the very first time act as Judge of all nations after the destruction of false religion. As mentioned in paragraph 8, some of the events that will occur during that time are recorded at Matthew 24:30, 31. When you examine those verses, you will note that Jesus there foretells events that are similar to the ones he mentions in the parable of the sheep and the goats. For example, the Son of man comes with glory and with angels; all tribes and nations are gathered; those judged as sheep “lift [their] heads up” because “everlasting life” awaits them.* Those judged as goats “beat themselves in lamentation,” realizing that “everlasting cutting-off” awaits them.—Matt. 25:31-33, 46.
13. (a) When will Jesus judge the people as sheep or goats? (b) How does this understanding affect our view of our ministry?
13 So, then, what can we conclude? Jesus will judge people of all nations as sheep or goats when he comes during the great tribulation. Then, at Armageddon, the climax of the great tribulation, the goatlike ones will be ‘cut off’ forever. How does that understanding affect our view of our ministry? It helps us to see how important our preaching work is. Until the great tribulation begins, people still have time to change their thinking and start walking on the cramped road “leading off into life.” (Matt. 7:13, 14) To be sure, people may now display a sheeplike or a goatlike disposition. Nevertheless, we should remember that the final judgment of who are sheep and who are goats is during the great tribulation. Therefore, we have good reason for continuing to offer as many people as possible the opportunity to listen to and respond to the Kingdom message.
Brian Stoin
Member
Not up to me...
So why did you leave? Why not go back?