Omnipotence Paradox and God's Limitations

[ManSinha]

Free will is not going to get them out of the conundrum. Why does the free will of a rapist supersede the free will of the victim?

I honestly fail to see the point you are trying to make in quoting my post

EDIT: *** acknowledging @Milton Platt's reply below

 

[Milton Platt]

I honestly fail to see the point you are trying to make in quoting my post

I was merely leaving a comment that further demonstrates your very point about free will.....

 

[dybmh]

Yet reality can be measured and weighed.

Love, trust, and friendship cannot be measured or weighed in an objective scientific manner. Does this mean that love, trust, and friendship are not real?

 

[ChristineM]

Love, trust, and friendship cannot be measured or weighed in an objective scientific manner. Does this mean that love, trust, and friendship are not real?

It means they are subjective, the reaction to chemical processes. Those processes can be observed using mri technology.

 

[dybmh]

It means they are subjective, the reaction to chemical processes. Those processes can be observed using mri technology.

But can they be weighed and measured?

 

[ChristineM]

But can they be weighed and measured?

Does it matter if the chemical process can be observed?
One does not need all techniques to discern physical interaction.
However, if it can be observed then it is at least possible if not practical to measure the amount of chemical required to initiate the signals that cause the emotions.

 

[dybmh]

Does it matter if the chemical process can be observed?
One does not need all techniques to discern physical interaction.
However, if it can be observed then it is at least possible if not practical to measure the amount of chemical required to initiate the signals that cause the emotions.

The chemicals can be measured and observed, but, do you think that science will be able to accurately measure the amount of love, trust, and friendship that is rendered to an individual by a specific measured / observed amount of the neuro-chemicals?

edit: I guess what I am asking is, are love, trust, and friendship predictable and observable scientifically?

 

[ChristineM]

The chemicals can be measured and observed, but, do you think that science will be able to accurately measure the amount of love, trust, and friendship that is rendered to an individual by a specific measured / observed amount of the neuro-chemicals?

edit: I guess what I am asking is, are love, trust, and friendship predictable and observable scientifically?

What is the amount? To me love, friendship, trust are binary, they either are or they aren't.

 

[dybmh]

What is the amount? To me love, friendship, trust are binary, they either are or they aren't.

Binary? So there is no difference between how I love my kids vs. how I love my wife vs. how I love ice-cream?

 

[dybmh]

What is the amount? To me love, friendship, trust are binary, they either are or they aren't.

Is this based on science?

 

[ChristineM]

Binary? So there is no difference between how I love my kids vs. how I love my wife vs. how I love ice-cream?

There are many different emotions involved, the love element is the same

 

[Shad]

An "Almighty" Being with limitations......who said? Someone who has limitations and assumes that the Creator has them too? Why?

Squared circle. It is a logical impossibility. Those are limitation even believers of many religion will admit to.

 

[ChristineM]

Is this based on science?

I will requote a part of my post, in capitals 'TO ME" does that make it any clearer?

And for your information "01101100 01101111 01110110 01100101"

Not sure there is any science on the subject

 

[dybmh]

I will requote a part of my post, in capitals 'TO ME" does that make it any clearer?

And for your information "01101100 01101111 01110110 01100101"

Not sure there is any science on the subject

I appreciate your humor. Thank you.

Listen,

Here is my point. You have a belief in Love, Friendship, and Trust that is not based on science.

Am I wrong?

for those of you curious, here's a link for binary to text conversion of the numeric string in Christine's reply:

hyperlink >>> rapidtables.com - Translate Binary to Text

 

[ChristineM]

I appreciate your humor. Thank you.

Listen,

Here is my point. You have a belief in Love, Friendship, and Trust that is not based on science.

Am I wrong?

for those of you curious, here's a link for binary to text conversion of the numeric string in Christine's reply:

hyperlink >>> rapidtables.com - Translate Binary to Text

My love is not based on science, it is based on me. However your post prompted me to do a little research

I think this snippet from Unconscious Ideas And Emotions - Psychologist World
Touches on the question

However, the generation of a positive emotion is often difficult if the feeling that is current is the negative one, and vice versa. The unconscious idea enables all emotions to be arranged in pairs of complementary opposites.​

Complimentary pairs = binary

 

[dybmh]

Here is the problem I am having. I think the OP presents an invalid test. There is no paradox based on the OP.

The OP presents the following question in order to show that an Omnipotent god is "logically incoherent":

"Can an omnipotent god create a rock so heavy that he cannot lift it?"

I propose the test is invalid unless the OP claims that Love, Trust, and Friendship also do not exist.

The test is based on how an object behaves in classical physics. But there are real things that exist that do not behave like objects do in classical physics.

Love, Trust, and Friendship do not behave like objects do in physics.

If someone agrees that Love, Trust, and Friendship are real, and they cannot demonstrate that they behave like objects do in classical physics; then, they can't use a logical test based physics to disprove that God exists. Why? Because, Love, Trust, and Friendship also do not behave like objects in classical physics.

If the OP agrees that Love, Trust, and Friendship are real, then there is no paradox based on the OP.

If the OP does not agree that Love, Trust, and Friendship are real, then we can move on to String theory and Quantum mechanics, lasers, etc...

Either way, the OP is flawed and presents an invalid proof that belief in God is logically incoherent.

 

[dybmh]

My love is not based on science, it is based on me. However your post prompted me to do a little research

I think this snippet from Unconscious Ideas And Emotions - Psychologist World
Touches on the question

However, the generation of a positive emotion is often difficult if the feeling that is current is the negative one, and vice versa. The unconscious idea enables all emotions to be arranged in pairs of complementary opposites.​

Complimentary pairs = binary

From the article you linked to:

"There is a constant oscillation between the positive and negative feelings. Emotions are constantly changing, in part because feelings change, and in part due to the constant stream of ideas that flow in the unconscious mind."

"Constant oscillation"
"Constantly changing"
"stream"
"flow"

That sounds non-binary to me.

 

[Hawkins]

It means they are subjective, the reaction to chemical processes. Those processes can be observed using mri technology.

Human technology ever demonstrated that earth can be flat. That's when humans don't have the ability to know more. Similarly, brain activities remain a speculation, under the assumption that no soul exists. The advocate (such as earth moving around sun back then) is a soul/spirit residing not on our space contributes to our behaviors. Humans lack the ability to speculate anything outside of our own space to prove or disprove anything. On the other hand, the advocate that a soul exists but residing outside of our space is not a new concept. It's a concept existed long before the emergency of our science. That lies its validity.

 

[ChristineM]

Human technology ever demonstrated that earth can be flat. That's when humans don't have the ability to know more. Similarly, brain activities remain a speculation, under the assumption that no soul exists. The advocate (such as earth moving around sun back then) is a soul/spirit residing not on our space contributes to our behaviors.

Neuroscience and mri technology move old speculation into the realms of reality

Simple measurement and observation shows the earth is not flat

A soul has never been observed, weighed or measured, no evidence for the existence of a soul exists. But anyone is welcome to their belief.

 

[viole]

I do not follow.

We are in a world that we are accustomed to lies
Lies become a thing to do
We see our leaders lie and cheat
And we see that is power

However God is not human
He is not the son of man
He does not lie nor changes his mind
And that unchanging characteristic
means God is dependable and doesn't fail
When he says he will do it
You can be assured it will happen.

Again being omnipotent and and lying are two different kinds
Didn't people teach that such things are not like the other?

In what world we are is not relevant. We have

1] we lie all the time; your claim
2) ergo, lying is logically (and even nomologically) possible, because of 1)
3) God cannot lie: your claim
4) ergo, there is at least one X, such that X is logically possible and cannot be done by God. Because of 2) and 3)
5) omnipotence entails the ability to do everything (that is logically possible)
6) ergo, God is not omnipotent. Because of 4) and 5)

Simple. The claim that God is omnipotent and cannot lie, are logically exclusive.

Your call.

Ciao

- viole