Olorun or Olódùmarè versus the Abrahamic God.

[Unveiled Artist]

/Takes a deep breathe/ Okay. I was thinking of the differences between both Creators from the Yoruba and/or Santeria point of view. Even though the two override, one is pure Lukumi faith the other is a mix between that and Catholicism.

I was in a chat room couple years ago talking with a aborisha who is deciding whether or not she wanted to be initiated to a santera. Her mother is a santera; and, she knows the faith well.

She tells me that Olódùmarè (or I think in Yoruba it's Olorun) is not a Creator being, like in Abrabamic traditions, but is an energy, for lack of better words, that flows through the Orishas or nature spirits and each Orisha gives us ache (spirit) can't describe it so we can connected with our given Orisha if we become santera(o) or connect through our ancestors as outsiders or ayelos.

I will assume for the case of this point that all three Abrahamic beliefs worship the same God because each come from the God of Abraham. Abraham worshiped one God not three.

That said, in the three traditions (Muslim, Christian, and Judaism) I'll say MCJ combined, they believe God as a being.

1. Is the Santera Creator seen the same way.. as a being not a energy or force that dictates what one should do in the hearts of his or her believers?

Lukumi and Santeria both have many Pataki (or legends) that the santera told me are true.

2. Are the Pataki such as those of Olurun stories relaying the creation, events, and relations of the Orishas and Olódùmarè? or like MCJ (majority) do they believe the Pataki (their scriptures) as literally true?

I was thinking of going ahead and practice but because of the Santeria mix, I wondered if during the mix did the Lukumi faith not only had to mask the saints over the Orishas they believed, did they change their definition of the Creator (if it was different than that of Christianity).

3. Did the Lukumi faith-now Santeria--take the definition of the Creator from Christianity or do they still hold their same definition if it is indeed different?

4. If it is different, how do they define the Creator?

I read online, Wiki, Orishanet, Church of the Orishas, and so forth. I have a book of some Pataki about Yemaya, the Orisha I'm called to (but don't know yet if that is my head Orisha).

If there are people who are practicing the Lukumi or Santeria faith or experienced it second hand, can you answer these question for me.. .talk about it some?

Thanks

 

[GoodbyeDave]

The idea of a creator is not universal in the world, but it is found everywhere. It certainly seems to be almost universal in Africa, so it seems perverse to claim Abrahamic influence.

I can only quote my one source on Yoruba religion, by a US babalawo who trained in Nigeria:
> The indigenous Yoruba has a belief in the existence of a self-existent being who is believed to be responsible for the creation and maintenance of heaven and earth, of men and women, and … divinities and spirits who are believed to be his functionaries…
> The Yoruba word for God is both Oludumare and Olorun.
> … the orisha were created and sent by Oludumare to assist in the spiritual evolution of humankind.

The idea of Olorun as an "energy" seems suspiciously New Age to me: I don't know of any ethnic religion, whether in America, Africa, Europe, or Asia, which envisages the gods a manifestations of some impersonal force. (And if anyone is about to quote Hinduism, I'll just say read the Vedas and find out what Ishvara originally meant.)

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Thank you! I'm not getting my alerts; I so happen to come across your response.

I was thinking of going into the Santeria or Lukumi faith given I relate to some things and wanted to learn more in person beforehand.

Unfortunately, I do not believe in a Creator as a separate deity; and, I don't want to misconstrue the faith with "new age" thinking. My signature below describes the best way I see "God." Shaef does believe in a Creator, being. I think she is christian. However, I like the way she described the nature of God as well as Albert Whent. I don't know if that's similiar to Yoruba or not.

I guess it's kind of sad especially since the Orishas have a pull on me.

What can I say? /shrugs/

The idea of a creator is not universal in the world, but it is found everywhere. It certainly seems to be almost universal in Africa, so it seems perverse to claim Abrahamic influence.

I can only quote my one source on Yoruba religion, by a US babalawo who trained in Nigeria:
> The indigenous Yoruba has a belief in the existence of a self-existent being who is believed to be responsible for the creation and maintenance of heaven and earth, of men and women, and … divinities and spirits who are believed to be his functionaries…
> The Yoruba word for God is both Oludumare and Olorun.
> … the orisha were created and sent by Oludumare to assist in the spiritual evolution of humankind.

The idea of Olorun as an "energy" seems suspiciously New Age to me: I don't know of any ethnic religion, whether in America, Africa, Europe, or Asia, which envisages the gods a manifestations of some impersonal force. (And if anyone is about to quote Hinduism, I'll just say read the Vedas and find out what Ishvara originally meant.)

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Unfortunately, I do not believe in a Creator as a separate deity

May I ask why not? of you are drawn to the orisha, maybe you should consider the question further. One of the Ifa verses commends "To be told and to like it, to be given advice and to accept it, to seek advice in order to know what the world is like." Of course, they don't say it's easy!

I don't want to misconstrue the faith with "new age" thinking.

Well, at least that's honest! I do get irritated by "free-range pagans" who grab one god from here and another from there, with no respect for the faiths they plunder.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

May I ask why not? of you are drawn to the orisha, maybe you should consider the question further. One of the Ifa verses commends "To be told and to like it, to be given advice and to accept it, to seek advice in order to know what the world is like." Of course, they don't say it's easy!

Thank you for replying. I guess you can call it new age (which I despise that word in relation to my spiritual views); however, I agree with how Anne and Whent (in my signature) and how they view God (They believe in a Creator). Every time I hear the word God, I think of an Being outside of us from a movie shaping the universe. The relationship I want to receive from "God" would be through the Orishas. However, I don't want to fall into the trap of mixing new age thinking (abstractness) since I know the Orishas are real within nature and I know the ashe from "him/her." I just want to be more involved by learning the stories of their interaction with each other (is it legend or literal?) and with us. I want to be more personally involved. I don't believe I can receive that without knowing who the Creator is and the Orishas within the community with whom practices devotion to them, ancestors, and creator.

I find it a beautiful faith, from what I've learned. As an American, of course some things are unfamiliar and from a cultural perspective immoral (paying to practice); and, I understand why the cost is involved. I just don't want to be pushed away in addition, because I can't afford to practice.

Well, at least that's honest! I do get irritated by "free-range pagans" who grab one god from here and another from there, with no respect for the faiths they plunder.

Thank you!! I now exactly what you mean. I know a Santera close by and wanted to talk about this with her more. We had a small chat. She doesn't know anything about new age thought and Christianity. So, she can't help me "translate" the terms from the Lucumi faith and that of Christianity. I do intend to call her again; but, I want to be sure I can clear some things without the impression that I want to learn "their secrets." (Which she thought at first, and I told her no).

 

[wizanda]

Eshu sits at the cross roads and makes a taunting riddle: Where he wears a special hat, where one side is black, the other white; people argue so much over which colour the hat was, they've missed what he was saying. So he will come back at the end of time, and explain it before closure.

There is just one creator, many stories that all interlink over time, if you let them; yet some people are racist bigots, thus they just keep arguing over what colour.