Oklahoma -- where abortion is now illegal even BEFORE you are pregnant!

[Shadow Wolf]

Well, other medical definitions have a different definition of pregnancy. They should have defined it in the bill. It seems they do mean after implantation you cannot terminate the pregnancy due to contraceptives being allowed.

pregnancies

Did you read that?

The period from conception to birth. After the egg is fertilized by a sperm and then implanted in the lining of the uterus, it develops into the placenta and embryo, and later into a fetus.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

That's not answering my question. Why not look to the silver lining in abortion in at least those souls go to Heaven and will never risk losing that?

I imagine it depends somewhat to christians whether they follow augustine, or pelagius. That's probably what I'd ask him

 

[amorphous_constellation]

I heard yesterday that many republicans voted against some 27 or 28 million dollar baby formula aid thing. Is that true, and why would they do that, if they want all these babies

Meanwhile, both parties are willing to fund the ukraine war for 40 billion, apparently. I add that detail, since it may show context

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I imagine it depends somewhat to christians whether they follow augustine, or pelagius. That's probably what I'd ask him

He already said that babies go to Heaven and the unborn have a soul. I'm not asking him which brand of Christianity he follows because I am asking why not just let abortion happen and rejoice that at least they go to Heaven?

 

[crossfire]

Well, other medical definitions have a different definition of pregnancy. They should have defined it in the bill. It seems they do mean after implantation you cannot terminate the pregnancy due to contraceptives being allowed.

pregnancies

Here is the definition you linked to:

Pregnancy

Definition
The period from conception to birth. After the egg is fertilized by a sperm and then implanted in the lining of the uterus, it develops into the placenta and embryo, and later into a fetus. Pregnancy usually lasts 40 weeks, beginning from the first day of the woman's last menstrual period, and is divided into three trimesters, each lasting three months.​

Here is the definition of Conception:

conception
[kon-sep´shun]
1. the onset of pregnancy, marked by implantation of the blastocyst; the formation of a viable zygote.
2. concept.
​

Conception is not the same thing as fertilization.

Contraceptives are for the prevention of pregnancy. Some forms of contraception work by preventing fertilization (preventing sperm meeting egg,) while other forms of contraception work by preventing conception (preventing blastocyte from implanting.) Fertilization does not necessarily lead to conception. There are many situations that can cause conception to be difficult to achieve, even though fertilization has occurred.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

why not just let abortion happen and rejoice that at least they go to Heaven?

Hm. Not speaking for him, but I wonder if general, Christians don't like to give a free pass to individuals - the cross should be carried, in a lived life. The baby and the would-be mother get a 'free pass,' because the baby goes to heaven, and maybe the woman might pray for forgiveness, and also go to heaven?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

It doesn't matter how we define it, the key unknown would be how future courts define it. There could be concern of companies and medical professionals being reluctant to provide contraception (normal or emergency) in fear of legal issues under this law, especially if there are any new drugs or methods developed for that purpose in the future.

We will see. I am sure it will get challenged.

I agree. I hope you didn't think I was defending this legislation.

No I don't think you are, but I agree with the legislation except it does seem to need some clarifications.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Did you read that?

Yes, the implanting is subsequent but the definition says pregnancy is from conception to birth.

What Is Conception?
Conception is the joining of a sperm and egg, also known as fertilization.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Here is the definition you linked to:

Pregnancy

Definition
The period from conception to birth. After the egg is fertilized by a sperm and then implanted in the lining of the uterus, it develops into the placenta and embryo, and later into a fetus. Pregnancy usually lasts 40 weeks, beginning from the first day of the woman's last menstrual period, and is divided into three trimesters, each lasting three months.​

Here is the definition of Conception:

conception
[kon-sep´shun]
1. the onset of pregnancy, marked by implantation of the blastocyst; the formation of a viable zygote.
2. concept.
​

Conception is not the same thing as fertilization.

Contraceptives are for the prevention of pregnancy. Some forms of contraception work by preventing fertilization (preventing sperm meeting egg,) while other forms of contraception work by preventing conception (preventing blastocyte from implanting.) Fertilization does not necessarily lead to conception. There are many situations that can cause conception to be difficult to achieve, even though fertilization has occurred.

Where did you get your definition of conception? These definitions say they are the same thing.

Conception is the joining of a sperm and egg, also known as fertilization.

What Is Conception?


Conception is the time when sperm travels up through the vagina, into the uterus, and fertilizes an egg found in the fallopian tube.

What Does Conception Mean for Pregnancy? Plus, When It Occurs

 

[crossfire]

Where did you get your definition of conception?

I got it from the same source you provided for the definition of pregnancy.

 

[crossfire]

I have to laugh because another meaning of the word conception is this: a basic understanding of a situation or a principle.
There seems to be some confusion over conception, lol

 

[crossfire]

Here is a doctor's definition of conception, which refers to both fertilization and when pregnancy occurs with the implantation of the blastocyte. He does specify that pregnancy begins with the implantation of the blastocyte.

https://www.rxlist.com/conception/definition.htm

Conception: 1. The union of the sperm and the ovum. Synonymous with fertilization.
2. The onset of pregnancy, marked by implantation of the blastocyst into the endometrium.
3. A basic understanding of a situation or a principle.
From the Latin conceptio, conceptionis meaning conception, becoming pregnant; drawing up of legal formulae; and from the Latin conceptus meaning conceiving, pregnancy; collecting, or a collection.​

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I got it from the same source you provided for the definition of pregnancy.

If you clicked on the word conception from my link one definition is

conception
(kən-sĕp′shən)
n.
1.
a. Formation of a viable zygote by the union of the male sperm and female ovum; fertilization.

So which definition do you think they meant? I would say this one because it says this also:

Pregnancy:
The period from conception to birth. After the egg is fertilized by a sperm and then implanted in the lining of the uterus, it develops into the placenta and embryo, and later into a fetus.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Here is a doctor's definition of conception, which refers to both fertilization and when pregnancy occurs with the implantation of the blastocyte. He does specify that pregnancy begins with the implantation of the blastocyte.

https://www.rxlist.com/conception/definition.htm

Conception: 1. The union of the sperm and the ovum. Synonymous with fertilization.
2. The onset of pregnancy, marked by implantation of the blastocyst into the endometrium.
3. A basic understanding of a situation or a principle.
From the Latin conceptio, conceptionis meaning conception, becoming pregnant; drawing up of legal formulae; and from the Latin conceptus meaning conceiving, pregnancy; collecting, or a collection.​

I think if you polled most people they would say fertilization and conception are the same thing. However, I think this bill needs to define pregnancy and conception better.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If you clicked on the word conception from my link one definition is

conception
(kən-sĕp′shən)
n.
1.
a. Formation of a viable zygote by the union of the male sperm and female ovum; fertilization.

So which definition do you think they meant? I would say this one because it says this also:

Pregnancy:
The period from conception to birth. After the egg is fertilized by a sperm and then implanted in the lining of the uterus, it develops into the placenta and embryo, and later into a fetus.

Selectively choosing definitions to fit your point amd refusing to consider counter points isn't a good tactic. Even your source included implantation as a criteria for pregnancy. This is because pregnancy doesn't happen if there is no implantation.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think if you polled most people they would say fertilization and conception are the same thing. However, I think this bill needs to define pregnancy and conception better.

Most people don't know what impeach means. What's your point?

 

[crossfire]

If you clicked on the word conception from my link one definition is

conception
(kən-sĕp′shən)
n.
1.
a. Formation of a viable zygote by the union of the male sperm and female ovum; fertilization.

So which definition do you think they meant? I would say this one because it says this also:

Pregnancy:
The period from conception to birth. After the egg is fertilized by a sperm and then implanted in the lining of the uterus, it develops into the placenta and embryo, and later into a fetus.

Curiouser and curiouser. Here's a screenshot:

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Selectively choosing definitions to fit your point amd refusing to consider counter points isn't a good tactic. Even your source included implantation as a criteria for pregnancy. This is because pregnancy doesn't happen if there is no implantation.

This is why I gave my reasons for selecting the definition I did. If you disagree ok.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Most people don't know what impeach means. What's your point?

Have a nice day.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Curiouser and curiouser. Here's a screenshot:
View attachment 63153

Here is a screenshot showing more of the screen.