Oklahoma -- where abortion is now illegal even BEFORE you are pregnant!

[Aupmanyav]

Yes, you read that correctly. Oklahoma has just passed a law that defines "human life" as anything from the moment of fertilization.
But pregnancy requires implantation. Medical science knows well that many, many fertilized eggs do not successfully implant, and are thus flushed, and no pregnancy results.

Yeah, they need to change the wording of their law, something like 'after implantation in the body of a women', etc.

Every sperm is sacred
Every sperm is great
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate

While I agree to the first two lines, the next two are not correct. God puts 250 million spermatozoa in one ejaculation.

 

[Heyo]

Excellent.

Excellent comedy. They don't need the orange clown any more to amaze and entertain.

 

[Clara Tea]

OKLAHOMA, WHERE ABORTION IS ILLEGAL EVEN BEFORE YOU ARE PREGNANT.

WILL OKLAHOMA HOLD GOD RESPONSIBLE FOR FAILURLE TO IMPLANT?

Yes, you read that correctly. Oklahoma has just passed a law that defines "human life" as anything from the moment of fertilization.

But pregnancy requires implantation. Medical science knows well that many, many fertilized eggs do not successfully implant, and are thus flushed, and no pregnancy results.

My question is this: is Oklahoma going to hold God accountable for that FAILURE, because failure is indeed what it is, and given that it is outside of the control of any human, can only be in the hands of God? And how will they exact punishment?

Creating a law that deals with abortion before the egg moves to it's final destination is what I call preparation. But, if they were really prepared, shouldn't they have prevented the pregnancy in the first place?

I realize that we are dealing with life or death of a fetus (or pre-fetus). The argument is about determining when life begins.

I wonder if we could consider the sperm to be potential life (millions of them per ejaculation). Should we save each and every one of them? Should we find eggs for each one, to make sure that they don't go to waste?

I suppose that we should let nature take its course. Nature determines that a lucky one (sometimes more) sperm makes it through and bonds with an egg (sometimes more than one). Nature determines if an egg will move to the correct location. Is that nature a biological fact of our body, or is that nature an act of God? This is also debated.

For sure, we should make sure that an aborted fetus has no chance of living. Current Federal law (in the US) requires doctors to save the fetus if aborted. But that often results in a blind, and mentally and physically impared human, who will undoubtedly live a miserable life. Will that aborted fetus ever rise to the presidency of the United States, burdened with mental retardation? Well....I won't answer that.

Some feel that the fetus is nothing more than a collection of cells before it gets brain activity, and that it is a part of the mother's body, and that no one should tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her own body.

If a two year old baby is a nuissance, should the mother have the right to say that it is a part of her body, and therefore she could abandon it or kill it?

The same political party (Republican, Religious Right) kills soldiers, yet wants to save fetuses when they are nothing more than collections of cells. They don't mind that we declare war without understanding if the nation is linked to terrorism. They don't mind making torture camps to torture false confessions (hoping to justify the reason for fighting wars). Most of the detainees at Guantanamo were not even members of the al Qaeda, and one was eight years old, and one was 13 years old. Some were waterboarded in ice water for such an extended period that their limbs froze, got frost bite, and gangrene, and required amputations. Prisoners were given yellow or brown smelly water that had intentionally had bacteria that would cause severe stomach cramps and diarrhea. Is this the Kind Kompassionate Konservative way?

At least policies should be consistent and carefully carried out.

The press in the US was very careful to list US casualties, but never mention Iraqi casualties. The truth was hidden from the American voters.

People are being led. They are being brainwashed. They are forced to accept the wedge issue of abortion (though nothing is ever done about it) during elections, rather than focus on the really important issues of our day.

Is abortion really as important as the starving homeless people? What would Jesus have done?

 

[Clara Tea]

The land of the lawsuit.

At least the lawyers worship our laws (or means to get around them).

 

[Clara Tea]

Well as far as I can see.
If God truly does see all pregnancies as the potential for life, why does He allow for so many miscarriages?
I mean He is omniscient after all. He is in control of all things, is He not?
Basically it boils down to the old cliche of
“If God was truly against abortion, why does He allow for so many miscarriages?”


(By the way, this is not my argument. Just giving my perspective of what the OP is implying. They are free to correct me.)

For that matter, if God knows the future, he should know which of us is good and which is bad. Why then, have us tested on earth and give us a choice?

My friend discussed this with me and concluded that our journey through life is not to teach God what we are like, but it is to teach ourselves.

She also said that if God was displeased by anything, he'd stop it. It is like watching Maurice (Samantha's dad on Bewitched). Surely he would wave his hand and fix any problem, and he wouldn't stand by idly while he is displeased. Thunder and lightning would appear, and poof, things are his way.

 

[Clara Tea]

This is not legal until Roe v Wade is overturned, of course. But that seems to be a technicality at this point.

Oddly Texas women were going to Oklahoma in recent months to get abortion services, now that is over.

This is how Republicans make themselves less and less appealing to the average voter. As voters reject the GOP the Republicans will have to find more and more unethical ways to affect election outcomes in their favor.

Roe V. Wade was overturned.

 

[Clara Tea]

Well, since Texas has it set up that anyone abetting in an abortion can be sued for $10,000, and a pharmacist does not know if the medication is for after treatment of a spontaneous abortion/miscarriage or for inducing an abortion/miscarriage, then are they going to risk a lawsuit(s) by providing the medication to someone who has had a miscarriage? This is freaking crazy.

Fetuses are too young to bet.

 

[Clara Tea]

God never gets held accountable. It is always someone else's fault, often the victim's.

Should God be sued for hurricanes, quakes, etc?

 

[Clara Tea]

That line has not been crossed. Yet. But I suspect it will be in the next couple of years.



Nothing much. We're having a pleasant bout of insanity with sugar sprinkles and holy water on top. Want a taste?

If the mother (or for that matter, anyone around the mother) caused an abortion, that might be liability.

 

[F1fan]

Roe V. Wade was overturned.

No it hasn't. Perhaps you are confusing the draft of the opinion by Alito that was signed by five justices. The actual ruling has not been released, and is expected in June. We still don't know what the decision will be.

 

[SomeRandom]

For that matter, if God knows the future, he should know which of us is good and which is bad. Why then, have us tested on earth and give us a choice?

My friend discussed this with me and concluded that our journey through life is not to teach God what we are like, but it is to teach ourselves.

She also said that if God was displeased by anything, he'd stop it. It is like watching Maurice (Samantha's dad on Bewitched). Surely he would wave his hand and fix any problem, and he wouldn't stand by idly while he is displeased. Thunder and lightning would appear, and poof, things are his way.

I can’t exactly argue.
God (as understood by most religions) is supposed to be a figure capable of knowing them past, present and future. And in many traditions can shape such events with ease.
So the argument then stands. If he were truly against abortion he’d stop all miscarriages

 

[Kenny]

Well as far as I can see.
If God truly does see all pregnancies as the potential for life, why does He allow for so many miscarriages?
I mean He is omniscient after all. He is in control of all things, is He not?
Basically it boils down to the old cliche of
“If God was truly against abortion, why does He allow for so many miscarriages?”


(By the way, this is not my argument. Just giving my perspective of what the OP is implying. They are free to correct me.)

Ok... it just didn't seem like that was his point. Not sure how you get from miscarriages to punishing God (in which he doesn't believe in)

It also seemed like he was upset that life began at conception as a concept.

I know you didn't have his perspective but for his sake let me take a stab at it for his sake.

1) We pump our bodies with dye's chemicals, alcohol, anti-abortion pills (which as far as I know may have latent properties for all I know), wrong foods, abortions, drugs, weed and then say "God, why do you let so many miscarriages?
2) The proposal is that God should control every aspect of life and living. Have you seen what happens to a child if you try to control every aspect of living? You have a revolt on you hands No, God gave the Earth to man (in our faith) and we are in charge.
3) Every child still grows in Heaven. (of course he doesn't believe in a Heaven)

What he also seems to say is that if God lets miscarriage happen, we should approve abortions. (I could be wrong in what he is implying -- if he is implying). Couldn't we also say, "If a baby isn't a baby in the womb, (perish the thought), it is just a piece of meat to put some seasoning on it? (Assuming he eats meat)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Ok... it just didn't seem like that was his point. Not sure how you get from miscarriages to punishing God (in which he doesn't believe in)

It also seemed like he was upset that life began at conception as a concept.

I know you didn't have his perspective but for his sake let me take a stab at it for his sake.

1) We pump our bodies with dye's chemicals, alcohol, anti-abortion pills (which as far as I know may have latent properties for all I know), wrong foods, abortions, drugs, weed and then say "God, why do you let so many miscarriages?
2) The proposal is that God should control every aspect of life and living. Have you seen what happens to a child if you try to control every aspect of living? You have a revolt on you hands No, God gave the Earth to man (in our faith) and we are in charge.
3) Every child still grows in Heaven. (of course he doesn't believe in a Heaven)

What he also seems to say is that if God lets miscarriage happen, we should approve abortions. (I could be wrong in what he is implying -- if he is implying). Couldn't we also say, "If a baby isn't a baby in the womb, (perish the thought), it is just a piece of meat to put some seasoning on it? (Assuming he eats meat)

It's that if life does begin at conception then there is never anyway humans can ever out abort Jehovah, as he apparently designed pregnancy to fail most of the time (and not just with humans...every great white shark in the ocean, for example, ate its siblings while still in the womb). So why not charge Jehovah with being a massive provider of spontaneous abortion?
Amd if all the kids go to Heaven, why even oppose abortion at all? Wouldn't it be a great mercy to guarantee they go there without risk of falling away and never know the ****storm that is life?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes, you read that correctly. Oklahoma has just passed a law that defines "human life" as anything from the moment of fertilization.

But pregnancy requires implantation. Medical science knows well that many, many fertilized eggs do not successfully implant, and are thus flushed, and no pregnancy results.

My question is this: is Oklahoma going to hold God accountable for that FAILURE, because failure is indeed what it is, and given that it is outside of the control of any human, can only be in the hands of God? And how will they exact punishment?

I wonder what public policy would look like in Oklahoma if lawmakers actually believed this and weren't being giant hyporites.

One thing that comes to mind: free folic acid for anyone with a uterus on social assistance.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What he also seems to say is that if God lets miscarriage happen, we should approve abortions. (I could be wrong in what he is implying -- if he is implying).

I've heard plenty of theists say that God is perfectly moral. Do you agree?

If you do, why would you think that it's wrong to look to God's example to tell us what is and isn't moral?

If you don't, why not?

 

[Revoltingest]

It's that if life does begin at conception then there is never anyway humans can ever out abort Jehovah, as he apparently designed pregnancy to fail most of the time (and not just with humans...every great white shark in the ocean, for example, ate its siblings while still in the womb). So why not charge Jehovah with being a massive provider of spontaneous abortion?
Amd if all the kids go to Heaven, why even oppose abortion at all? Wouldn't it be a great mercy to guarantee they go there without risk of falling away and never know the ****storm that is life?

You're trying to apply reason to religion?
Where's my yardstick!
Show me those knuckles!

 

[pearl]

Yes, you read that correctly. Oklahoma has just passed a law that defines "human life" as anything from the moment of fertilization.

There seems to be a morning after pill that prevents fertilization, therefore not an abortion.

 

[crossfire]

There seems to be a morning after pill that prevents fertilization, therefore not an abortion.

The morning after pill impedes implantation (when pregnancy occurs) rather than fertilization (which occurs before implantation and pregnancy.) It is not an abortion because no pregnancy has yet occurred, even though there may be an unimplanted fertilized egg present.

 

[Wandering Monk]

And anyone can file a lawsuit. Just think of how many people will try to make a business of consisting of filing such lawsuits? (They probably don't have to pay taxes on it, either!) Insanity!

Texas has the most lawyers per capita of any state in the US. I suspect there is a little back-scratching going on here.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Yes, you read that correctly. Oklahoma has just passed a law that defines "human life" as anything from the moment of fertilization.

But pregnancy requires implantation. Medical science knows well that many, many fertilized eggs do not successfully implant, and are thus flushed, and no pregnancy results.

My question is this: is Oklahoma going to hold God accountable for that FAILURE, because failure is indeed what it is, and given that it is outside of the control of any human, can only be in the hands of God? And how will they exact punishment?

Your premise is wrong. Here is text from the actual bill:


. "Abortion" means the act of using, prescribing,
administering, procuring, or selling of any instrument, medicine,
drug, or any other substance, device, or means with the purpose to
terminate the pregnancy of a woman, with knowledge that the
termination by any of those means will with reasonable likelihood
cause the death of an unborn child. It does not include the use,
prescription, administration, procuring, or selling of Plan B,
morning-after pills, or any other type of contraception or emergency
contraception.

It defines abortion as ending a pregnancy. The bill allows for contraception, even plan b pills.

Oklahoma HB4327 | 2022 | Regular Session