1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Ok, virgin birth happens with some species in the animal kingdom. What say you Mary?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Nowhere Man, Jun 23, 2019.

  1. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    27,595
    Ratings:
    +10,795
    Religion:
    Zen Buddhism
    No I don't see humans having this capability whatsoever , but it's still a pretty amazing phenomena that occurs in the animal kingdom.


    Hail Mary! 9 Amazing Tales of Virgin Births in the Animal Kingdom


    Unless Mary the Mother of God was a reptilian lizard or something...... Uh.. ...

    ...Wait..... Does that mean reptilians are among us?
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  2. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    32,713
    Ratings:
    +19,192
    Religion:
    Atheist
    And why was Jesus a man? Were did the Y-Chromosome come from?
     
    • Like Like x 4
  3. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    15,153
    Ratings:
    +16,331
    Religion:
    Non-theist
    Partheogenic species are all female. Jesus was male. That eliminates that method of virgin birth....
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    23,822
    Ratings:
    +15,219
    Religion:
    None
    The problem is that the gospel writers were pretty primitive.
    They thought that a person(male) planted a seed in a vessel(female) and sometimes it grew. Like a farmer planting a seed.

    They really didn't know where babies come from. But, supposedly, they know more about God than I do.:rolleyes:
    Tom
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. SugarOcean

    SugarOcean ¡pɹᴉǝM ʎɐʇS

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2019
    Messages:
    1,048
    Ratings:
    +283
    Religion:
    Christian
    No, it doesn't.
    That Jesus was male does not eliminate the method of virgin birth in the least. Females are able to reproduce through parthenogenesis.
    Jesus was begat upon Mary by the holy spirit of God who was the father of himself in truth.
    X Chromosomes, Y Chromosomes, per Christian theology, are all creations of the creator source.
    There is no thing that exists that is not of and created from the source. Creator,Holy Spirit.
     
  6. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    15,153
    Ratings:
    +16,331
    Religion:
    Non-theist
    I meant it eliminated parthenogenesis as a method of virgin birth. Parthenogenesis only produces females.

    Now, why God has a Y chromosome is another matter.....
     
  7. SugarOcean

    SugarOcean ¡pɹᴉǝM ʎɐʇS

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2019
    Messages:
    1,048
    Ratings:
    +283
    Religion:
    Christian
    Who led you to believe the creator has a Y Chromosome?
    As to your statement concerning parthenogenesis only produces females, I'd suggest you read more about parthenogenesis and the female genetic materials ablation from the zygote. Suggested as a place to start your study.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    7,532
    Ratings:
    +2,814
    Partheogenisis. It wasnt even considered scientifically 2,000. In the 1500's the easter bunny emerges into religious telling due to the observations of what was believed scientifically to be partheogenisis or rabbits having multiple liters without sex.

    So in a very real way observational measurable testible science was exposed as well being both valid and can be highly interpretive at the same time. Yes fact, rabbits can have multiple liters, no partheogenisis is not whats going on. Which from a strictly probably atheist view prooves god does not exist. Now if a lizard had been the animal being observed then today we would have the easter lizard.

    Art is a funny funny thing and nature loves to hide, In the open..
     
  9. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    28,059
    Ratings:
    +11,898
    Religion:
    Atheist
    "The production of female offspring by parthenogenesis is referred to as thelytoky (e.g., aphids) while the production of males by parthenogenesis is referred to as arrhenotoky (e.g., bees). When unfertilized eggs develop into both males and females, the phenomenon is called deuterotoky."
    source: Wikipedia


    .
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    32,713
    Ratings:
    +19,192
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Yes, ants and bees have a quite different method of sexual reproduction than vertebrates do. A correct statement would have been that all vertebrate parthenogenesis offspring are female.

    Males are produced when their is no male to produce. When a female mates with a male the offspring have chromosomes from both parents just as occurs with us. When a female has no male "seed" she lays eggs that have only half of her chromosomes. They do not have our X and Y chromosomes. The lack of half the chromosomes ends up making an individual male. Interesting diseases such as Sickle Cell Anemia cannot occur in them because the male carriers of recessive fatal genes will die out:

    "Another feature of the haplodiploidy system is that recessive lethal and deleterious alleles will be removed from the population rapidly because they will automatically be expressed in the males (dominant lethal and deleterious alleles are removed from the population every time they arise, as they kill any individual they arise in)."



    Haplodiploidy - Wikipedia

    So if Jesus was not a female then he was probably an insect:D
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  11. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,781
    Ratings:
    +199
    Religion:
    biblical believer
    Mary and her half brother Joseph, who were both sired by the one father, 'Alexander Helios III" by different mothers, were the biological parents of the man Jesus, who was born of the flesh as are all human beings, who are descendants of Adam.

    Jesus, a descendant of King David, who is a descendant of Adam.
     
  12. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    32,713
    Ratings:
    +19,192
    Religion:
    Atheist

    I am pretty sure that story is not in the Bible.
     
  13. Salvador

    Salvador RF's Swedenborgian

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2015
    Messages:
    5,301
    Ratings:
    +1,675
    Religion:
    Swedenborgianism
    According to Tulane University physicist Dr. Frank J. Tipler, if Jesus were born of a virgin, then Jesus’ DNA makeup would lack a Y chromosome because he did not have a biological father; He would instead have two X chromosomes. However, since Jesus was male, he'd have had the SRY gene. But this gene, instead of being in the Y chromosome, was inserted into a location where it is not ordinarily found – inside one of the two X chromosomes imparted from Mary, his mother.

    Source: THE PHYSICS OF CHRISTIANITY by Frank J. Tipler. New York: Doubleday, 2007.
     
  14. siti

    siti Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2017
    Messages:
    3,854
    Ratings:
    +2,882
    I'm going with the reptilian thing...so far that seems the most sensible comment.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  15. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,781
    Ratings:
    +199
    Religion:
    biblical believer
    Never having studied the Holy Scriptures in any depth, you WOULD undoubtedly be pretty sure that the fact that Jesus was born of the flesh to Mary and Joseph the son of Heli, who is identified as Alexander Helios III, is not to be found in the NT..
     
  16. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    32,713
    Ratings:
    +19,192
    Religion:
    Atheist
    When one makes up one's own nonsense that is not studying the Bible. That you could not find that story tells us that you know that you are wrong.

    Part of understanding the myths of the Bible is understanding the beliefs of that time.
     
  17. JJ50

    JJ50 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2015
    Messages:
    2,449
    Ratings:
    +1,162
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    Maybe Jesus was transgender!:D
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. siti

    siti Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2017
    Messages:
    3,854
    Ratings:
    +2,882
    There are XX males who are SRY positive - i.e. have the SRY gene on an X chromosome - but that usually happens - if I am not mistaken - because of a mutation on the father's Y chromosome??? Certainly not my field of expertise but I think that's about right. Anyway, the question is not really about where his maleness comes from - an XX male can show more or less 100% male characteristics - but we really don't know that about Jesus do we? He was reportedly circumcised - but, also reportedly, never married or had children - who knows? - but none of that explains how Mary was impregnated without being inseminated. Does Tipler have any explanation?
     
  19. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,781
    Ratings:
    +199
    Religion:
    biblical believer
    “The scriptures reveal that Mary was the daughter of Heli=Alexander Helios and Anna/Hanna, who was one of the three elderly daughters of Yehoshua/Jesus III, who was high priest in Jerusalem from 36 to 23 BC. Anna/Hanna, whose mother was ‘phanuel’ from the tribe of Asher, was given as a bride to young Alexander Helios (Heli), and Jesus is the son of Joseph, who is the son of Heli, born to another woman from Cyprus.”

    Joseph and Mary, the biological parents of Jesus were both sired by the one father, Alexander Helios=Heli. Joseph the son of Heli, the biological father of Jesus, is not to be confused with Joseph the son of Jacob, who Married the already pregnant Mary, and had no sexual relations with her until after she had given birth to the first of her sons.

    Luke 3:23; (KJV) And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli. The (AS WAS SUPPOSED) in brackets, was a later interpolation by those who believed the false teaching of the so-called virgin birth.

    In the different translations of the KJV into Arabic, Afrikaan, Zulu, etc and even some of the more modern English translations, such as the Good News Catholic Study Edition Bible, the words (As was supposed) have been retained, but the brackets are removed, thus by, making those words appear to be the declaration of Luke, while the serious biblical students know that they were not written by Luke, but were a later interpolation and a corruption of the Holy Scriptures, by those Christians, who refuse to accept that Jesus was not a God who became a man, but a man, born of human parents, who was later CHOSEN by the Lord our saviour ‘The Son of Man,’ as his heir and successor.

    If Jesus was not born of the flesh as all human beings are, but was born of a virgin without male semen having been introduced into her uterus, then this would have been the greatest of all miracles, and would have been shouted from the roof tops by all four gospel writers and yet we see that Mark, who is believed to have been the son of Peter, and John the beloved disciple, ignore the physical birth of Jesus as being totally irrelevant to the story of salvation and begin their account of He who was sent in the name of the Lord, with the Baptism of the man Jesus, when he was born of the spirit that descended upon him in the form of a dove, as the heavenly voice was heard to say, “You are my son, Today I have begotten thee.”

    This was also changed by those who want you to believe that Jesus was not born of the flesh by two human parents and Later, on the day of his baptism, born of the spirit of our Lord God and saviour, ‘The Son of MAN’ and the MOST HIGH in the creation, when the spirit of our Lord descended upon him in the form of a dove

    In Luke 3: 22; (In place of “Thou art my beloved son in who I am well pleased.”) The following authorities of the second, third, and fourth centuries read, “This day I have begotten thee,” vouched for by Codex D, and the most ancient copies of the old latin (a, b. c. ff.I), by Justin Martyr (AD 140), Clemens Alex, (AD. 190), Methodius (AD. 290), among the Greeks. And among the Latins, Lactaitius (AD 300), Hilary (AD) Juvencus (AD. 330), Faustus (AD. 400) and Augustine. All these oldest manuscripts were changed completely. They now read, “This is my son in whom I am well pleased.” Whereas the original variant was, “Thou art my Son. This day I have begotten thee.”
     
  20. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    28,059
    Ratings:
    +11,898
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Got a reputable source for all this apologetic silliness?

    .
     
Loading...