Ok, so when are western “scholars” going to stop?

[Jainarayan]

Hel is the Goddess of Death and the underworld in Nordic Polytheism. Hel is attested in the Poetic Edda, compiled in the 13th century from earlier traditional sources, and the Prose Edda, written in the 13th century by Snorri Sturluson. ... Scholarly theories have been proposed about Hel's potential connections to figures appearing in the 11th century Old English Gospel of Nicodemus and Old Norse Bartholomeus saga postola, potential Indo-European parallels to Bhavani, Kali, and Mahakali, and her origins.

Log into Facebook The link should work. If not, the rebuttal is captured below.

From a Facebook page, Society for the Protection and Promotion of Polytheism. Usually their writings oh the Hindu gods and Hinduism are quite good, but this one... well, you know me...

 

[Viraja]

Westerners bring a unique perspective to religion.

I always believed that different races are inherently are somewhat different from each other constitutionally in their outlook/mental make-up, even body type and composition, etc, just as much as their language, and other habits differ.

I salute Western dedication to religion/Hinduism. Being an ISKCON follower myself off-late, I see how much dedication the kirtaniyas pour onto their mahamantra japa.

I salute and bow down to all the great musicians of the West too. Jahnavi Harrison (many bhajans and mahamantra japa sessions), Chakrini (He Gopinath), Krishna Das, Aindra Das and many others too....

May be some staunch devotees of the West dislike the ascent of Hinduism as propragated and practiced by some of their own with such dedication, that sometimes there are pseudo-scholars that wantonly mispropogate.

 

[Aupmanyav]

They would never stop. They are working with an agenda.

 

[Jainarayan]

I salute Western dedication to religion/Hinduism. Being an ISKCON follower myself off-late, I see how much dedication the kirtaniyas pour onto their mahamantra japa.

I salute and bow down to all the great musicians of the West too. Jahnavi Harrison (many bhajans and mahamantra japa sessions), Chakrini (He Gopinath), Krishna Das, Aindra Das and many others too....

I definitely agree with you on that... the actual embracing of and dedication to Hinduism and Indian culture is to be applauded. I’m not sure when or if I’d have been so drawn to it if it weren’t for George Harrison. I was always fascinated by everything Indian but by the time I was a junior and senior in high school I was a full-on Indophile. So, westerners have made great contributions. What I mean in my diatribe is when western “scholars” try to minimize or downplay Hinduism’s and India’s uniqueness. I see them being condescending and patronizing. Especially when, though I’m certainly no scholar, they get so much of it wrong. Maybe I’m just defensive of Hinduism, India and Indians.

 

[Jainarayan]

They would never stop. They are working with an agenda.

Yeah, I see it too... my exact complaint, though it took an epic response to make it. But like I said, you know me.

 

[Sirona]

Namaste,

I’m sorry but this time I cannot see the point to get upset about. Granted, Kali is not a “goddess of the underworld”, but it’s an elephant in the room (Hey India) that she has an obvious “death aspect” about her. I can understand that many people may have a bhakti relationship with her, probably “overlooking” or “getting used to” this fierce aspect, but as for my insignificant opinion, I see no point in appeasing her because death (destruction of the physical body) will come to you sooner or later, the question is just when.

Moreover, the Facebook article does not say that Hel = Kali. It says ”potential Indo-European parallels to Bhavani, Kali, and Mahakali, and her origins”. “Potential” means there could be parallels, maybe not. I also don’t see any evil in comparing polytheist religions. If you start comparing them, you often see that a certain god(dess) has a certain field of activity. I don’t see any evil in comparing these fields of activity.

Moreover, the reproach of trying to “universalize religions” is ridiculous. If I had to make this reproach to any religion, I would make it not to people studying polytheist religions, but to a certain monotheist religion starting with B. Many New-Agers and pagans make their pantheon a religio-cultural salad, picking gods from various cultures. While I don’t see this necessarily as good, I don’t think it leads to more universalism, but to more diversity.

Moreover, “evil science” has established that the (concept of the) ancient Hindu God Dyaus has been “adapted” as Zeus with the Greeks and Jupiter with the Romans. Now, Dyaus/Zeus/Jupiter is the “sky father” and thus has a field of activity considered “positive”, so it’s something that “Hindus can be proud of”. Kali is a goddess whose image makes plainly allusion to death and destruction, something “negative”, so if she’s compared to other “dark” goddesses, so its a “misrepresentation” and “an evil act towards Hindus”.

Again, I fully respect Kali bhakti although it’s not my way but I don’t think the authors of said article were trying to say what you think they said (in the article, Durga isn’t mentioned at all), and I see absolutely no evil in comparing deities from various pantheons.

With all due respect.

 

[Jainarayan]

As always, this is all my observations and opinions.

I see it as part of the wider ignorance of Hinduism, our gods and practices, their origins and a condescension and patronizing of Hinduism, India and Indian culture. It looks like I’m reading more into this than there is, but this article was just the match that lit my fuse about the subject. And then there’s the ignorance of the other pantheons by these scholars, which I believe is rooted in the perspective of the Abrahamic paradigm.

The universalism I’m talking about is not the same universalism that Vivekananda, Ramakrishna, Gandhi (love him or hate him), et. al. talked about. Their universalism said all religions are equally valid (for their followers), which I agree with. They didn’t say all religions are interchangeable, ancient sources and origins notwithstanding. This universalism diminishes the uniqueness of each of these religions. I see it as a lumping together of them.

Some people say the gods of different pantheons are the same gods seen through different cultural and linguistic lenses. I don’t think that’s wholly false or wholly accurate. There probably is some overlap and equating one with another. And then there isn’t ... I think there is less correspondence between pantheons than people think. Almost all cultures have similar archetypes... a sun and moon god/dess; a warrior god or goddess (defensive war, Ares is about the only war god with a gratuitous blood lust, and lust for war for its own sake); a god/dess of arts, wisdom, learning.

However, apart from the archetypes I don’t see any connection between Saraswati, Apollo and Bragi; a sea god, again I don’t see any connection between Varuna, Aegir and Rán, and Poseidon especially in temperament; there are no hunters in Hinduism like Artemis, Ullr, or Skaði. I see little to no correspondence to the Vedic gods in any other Indo-European pantheon. The gods we worship today in Hinduism are puranic not Vedic. And the Vedic gods are the original Indo-European gods. The list goes on as far as I can see.

The New Age movement has only served to amplify it. I have frequented other spiritual and religious forums over time. I cannot tell you how many times I or other followers of a particular path have told people if they want to include gods of other pantheons in their worship, do so in that pantheon’s cultural context.

People like the Hindu gods and have asked if it’s ok to worship them alongside the Norse gods, for example. Maybe yes maybe no. Odin takes no sustenance except for alcohol. Odin is duplicitous and deceitful, using any means to achieve his goals. For someone wanting to worship any Hindu deity, is that really the example one wants to follow? Frigg alongside Tridevi, Hera, Juno, even Kali? Sure, all compassionate and resourceful mothers.

I worship Thor. I keep him separate from other deities though. There is really no reason to do that except that his statue is a completely different style that doesn’t aesthetically fit in my Hindu shrine. He accepts any offerings... non-alcoholic, vegetarian because he’s a chow-hound. So I could do a puja for him. Thor is not unlike Lakshmana (quick and fiery temper but quick to cool down, loyal and honest to a fault, compassionate), Hanuman (inhuman strength, honest, compassionate and loyal). And they reflect my personality and characteristics, especially Thor and Lakshmana. So it’s a fit in my case.

So on this we’ll have to agree to disagree.