1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Obstructionism in American Politics

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by joe1776, Jan 20, 2021.

  1. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2017
    Messages:
    4,294
    Ratings:
    +1,645
    Religion:
    None
    Obstructionism is the practice of deliberately delaying or preventing a process or change, especially in politics.

    Megatrends are trends that have an effect on a global scale.

    There have been two megatrends going on for centuries, probably since humanity's beginning. The first is that we humans have been learning from our mistakes. The second is that we are making moral progress. We humans treat each other better now than at any time in the past.

    These trends move at glacial speed, so we might not be aware of them in our lifetime. To spot them, it's necessary to compare the distant past, point by point, with the present.

    Intelligent men (women less frequently) infected with greed or the ambition for power have usually held an unfair advantage in human societies. When the megatrends combine to weaken their power, these men become obstructionists. They've been doing it for centuries.

    In American politics, the obstructionists were not able to stop the abolition of slavery, but they have been able to keep the descendants of slaves, along with the poor of other races, from getting their fair share of the benefits of our cooperative society for more than 150 years since slavery was abolished.

    If unchecked, the obstructionists will use all of the several devices built into the governing process to stall progressive legislation. And, if those fail, they will argue that the policy is unconstitutional, and it may well be since the Founders were men who lived with immature, 18th Century morality.

    If the Biden administration is to live up to its promises, removing the obstacles to progress should be the number one priority. Ending the filibuster would be a start but enlarging the Supreme Court and adding progressive members should be on the agenda.
     
    #1 joe1776, Jan 20, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
    • Like Like x 3
    • Useful Useful x 1
  2. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    76,076
    Ratings:
    +37,732
    Religion:
    Non-Theistic Mysticism
    I think we Americans put obstructionism behind us at the start of the Obama Administration.

    Hopefully it will never rear it's ugly head again.

    I have faith that the intensely sincere calls for national unity we're hearing these days will commit those who have been making them to a good faith effort to work hard to accomplish that unity.

    But just to be sure I've got things right, I'll see if I can find someone to run my ideas past Mitch McConnell for his take on it. He's said to be a leading proponent of bi-partisanship these days.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  3. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    47,780
    Ratings:
    +4,582
    so....promote the rich guy and maybe the trickle down effect will eventually take hold?

    and the Supreme Court in charge of making that happen?
     
  4. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    47,780
    Ratings:
    +4,582
    this election divided the country more severely than ever before

    unity is that light at the end of the tunnel

    the one you see when you .....take your last breath
     
  5. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    47,780
    Ratings:
    +4,582
    let us bear in mind....America is an economically based society

    ideals.....are all fine and good

    but money drives everything
     
  6. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    25,834
    Ratings:
    +12,593
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    But obstructionism was never so evident as during the Obama administration. The Republicans, led by Mitch McConnell, resolved to make him a one-term president by blocking his every initiative -- even those they themselves had previously proposed.
    Pete Sessions proposed using "Taliban tactics" to disrupt his administration.

    On the night of Obama's inauguration, in a four hour meeting of 15 Republican leaders in Washington's Caucus Room Restaurant, they resolved to undermine each and every Democratic initiative, by any means necessary. Kevin McCarthy, R-California, summed it up: “We’ve gotta challenge them on every single bill and challenge them on every single campaign.”
    Democrats condemn GOP's plot to obstruct Obama as 'appalling and sad'
    The Caucus Room conspiracy is alive and well!

    They undermined his healthcare and bank reform initiatives, blocked his insurance, spending, and job creation initiatives; blocked his judicial appointments. It's a wonder he got anything done at all.

    Democrats condemn GOP's plot to obstruct Obama as 'appalling and sad'
    Is it true that on the night of Obama’s inauguration leading republicans promised to obstruct him and make him a one term president? - Quora
    Republicans Keep Admitting Everything They Said About Obama Was a Lie
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  7. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    76,076
    Ratings:
    +37,732
    Religion:
    Non-Theistic Mysticism
    I thought it might be clear from the complete absurdity of my comments that I was being sarcastic. On the other hand, I admittedly put anyone who assumes I'm smart at grave risk of being proven wrong. So, there's that, too. :D

    Seriously, on the bright side, what you posted in response are facts everyone has a right to know, but not everyone does.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    19,241
    Ratings:
    +6,499
    Religion:
    deist
    Oh dear....... another 'it' word to remember.

    How about advancing technology? Isn't that a 'megatrend'?
    And 'Moral Progress' ? What 'moral' did you have in mind?

    What is 'moral'? Any description to offer?

    Something like 'Bad leaders cling to power ruthlessly' might save reading time?

    I've got one! Got one!
    'Donald Trump failed to Obstruct Democracy!' Yes? :D:

    Oh hang on there! Are you trying to shake the Constitution of the United States?
    That's obstructionist. Really,

    Well write to him!
    But for goodness sake..... he is going to be a busy leader. He can't read a long drawn out message, so make sure that your message is A.B.C.
    Accurate, Brief and Clear.
    Good Luck! :p
     
  9. cOLTER

    cOLTER Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2020
    Messages:
    670
    Ratings:
    +154
    Religion:
    Disciple
    The improvident have always expected others to take care of them. The law is used to force one group to pay the bills of another using the false accusation of systemic prejudice to explain individual failings. What you call "obstructionists" are in reality the people who are tired of subsidizing the 3,000,000+ young people who quit our free schools each year.

    The Left spent trillions on poverty programs in America for decades but solved nothing. Democrats don't solve the underlying problems of failing humans, they just subsidize them. They actually make it easier to live off the government dole.
     
  10. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2017
    Messages:
    4,294
    Ratings:
    +1,645
    Religion:
    None
    I think we have three originalists now on the nine -member Supreme Court who will interpret the words of the Constitution as the Founders meant them in their day. A Constitutional Law professor pointed out that the court could decide that, since Kamala Harris is not a white male, her presence made the Biden-Harris ticket unconstitutional.

    He wasn't suggesting that they would do that. He was only pointing out the potential for obstructionism in the current court.
     
  11. Kooky

    Kooky Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2020
    Messages:
    240
    Ratings:
    +83
    How would they know what the Founders meant in their day? Have they ever talked to them?
     
  12. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2017
    Messages:
    4,294
    Ratings:
    +1,645
    Religion:
    None
    We can all read their words; not only the Constitution itself but their other public writing. Other intent can be inferred from their decisions.
     
  13. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    25,834
    Ratings:
    +12,593
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    You don't think they had newspapers and broadsheets in the 1700s?
    There was widespread reporting of the issues under discussion and the opinions of the various delegates and politicians.

    There are the Federalist Papers -- essays by Hamilton, Madison and John Jay, discussing the proposed constitution, the issues of the day, their thoughts, founding principles, problems and proposed solutions.

    They took minutes at the Constitutional Convention, so we know all the arguments on every side, and we can read the compromises, first drafts and alterations.

    There were no phones or internet. They all wrote letters -- lots of them -- to each other and their wives and families, on durable, acid-free paper, discussing everything going on, their thoughts, plans and opinions.
     
  14. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    25,834
    Ratings:
    +12,593
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    Where are your family values? You're clearly anti-social.
    Would you throw your mother out on the street when she became old and 'useless'? How about your brother who broke his leg, or your autistic sister?
    The country is a family. We're social animals, not bears all living independently. The whole purpose of a "country" and government is mutual assistance.

    "Redistributing wealth" enables a much higher standard of living and of security for everyone.

    What is your concept of "wealth." Is it money? Is it a tool -- or a status indicator? If someone has more than he needs; more than he'll ever use, should he just hoard it, when it could solve so many problems for so many people?
    Wha!!! [​IMG] [​IMG]
    The New Deal did nothing? The Great Society did nothing? How about Social Security? the V.A. Bill? Medicare? Medicaid? Public education? Unemployment insurance? Minimum wage? Food stamps? Workmans' comp? Child labor laws? 40h week?
    Everything that makes America great and prosperous is a result of redistributing wealth.
    It was Democrats that established all the social, retraining, and educational programs to help the "failing humans." It was the Republicans that opposed them and, since 1980, have undermined them. Have you not noticed the beggars on every street corner and the armies of homeless everywhere? They didn't exist when I was coming up, before the liberals' social programs, which you oppose, were defunded by the "Reagan Revolution."
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  15. cOLTER

    cOLTER Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2020
    Messages:
    670
    Ratings:
    +154
    Religion:
    Disciple

    Supporting legitimate need is a given, creating a professional class of alms seekers enslaves the producers to the state.

    SS started out as an emergency fund 1%/1%. Today its 7.5%/7.5%. The more the feds take from wage earners the more likely is that they will need the Fed to support them at the end of their lives.

    The Left breaks things and then volunteers to fix them by taking over. They need a perpetual class of imaginary victims to stay in power and enrich themselves in Washington.

    Rather then taking from producers to support idlers the idler could get their own wealth by working and having it distributed to them from their employer.
     
    #15 cOLTER, Jan 21, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
  16. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2017
    Messages:
    4,294
    Ratings:
    +1,645
    Religion:
    None
    I doubt that. I think that Trump and the experience of this election only made evident the problem that has existed in the USA since our country was founded. I see it as fortunate because recognition of a problem is the first step toward a solution.
     
  17. Kooky

    Kooky Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2020
    Messages:
    240
    Ratings:
    +83
    Is poverty only in our imagination?
    Are people poor because they imagine themselves to be
    and need to snap out of it
    to become well-off and happy?
     
  18. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    25,834
    Ratings:
    +12,593
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    Kinda depends how you define poverty.
     
  19. cOLTER

    cOLTER Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2020
    Messages:
    670
    Ratings:
    +154
    Religion:
    Disciple
    In America poverty is often self inflicted.If not self inflicted it’s self perpetuated.
     
  20. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2017
    Messages:
    4,294
    Ratings:
    +1,645
    Religion:
    None
    Really? How frequently is "often?" What percentage of American citizens are poor because they're lazy?
     
Loading...