Objective Reality

[1137]

I've been in a debate over objective reality which has wetted my appetite, but unfortunately the individual I was debating refuses to engage in actual philosophy. So now I bring the question to all! Can you prove objective reality exists? That other minds are real, that you're not a brain in a vat, that there is an objective universe, and so on? Arguments and evidence are great, but proof would definitely win you some points, though I don't believe such proof is possible.

 

[Paleo]

I'm not sure absolute proof of many things is possible.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

I've been in a debate over objective reality which has wetted my appetite, but unfortunately the individual I was debating refuses to engage in actual philosophy. So now I bring the question to all! Can you prove objective reality exists? That other minds are real, that you're not a brain in a vat, that there is an objective universe, and so on? Arguments and evidence are great, but proof would definitely win you some points, though I don't believe such proof is possible.

If you don't have cancer , but are aware of others having the disease then at later date you are diagnosed as having Cancer , the objective reality exists ?

 

[Quintessence]

Could you clarify what you mean by "objective reality?" Why is that word "objective" there necessary, and how does it modify the meaning of the word "reality?"

I sometimes wonder what folks really mean by that term - if they repeat it simply because it is a common phrase. I mean, clearly reality has objects in it that can be pointed to, identified, described, sometimes measured, etc.

 

[buddhist]

The only way you can even begin to have a hope of proving the existence of an objective reality is if you can first prove that your mind/consciousness isn't creating everything else.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

I've been in a debate over objective reality which has wetted my appetite, but unfortunately the individual I was debating refuses to engage in actual philosophy. So now I bring the question to all! Can you prove objective reality exists? That other minds are real, that you're not a brain in a vat, that there is an objective universe, and so on? Arguments and evidence are great, but proof would definitely win you some points, though I don't believe such proof is possible.

 

[Quintessence]

The only way you can even begin to have a hope of proving the existence of an objective reality is if you can first prove that your mind/consciousness isn't creating everything else.

It first needs to be explained why such a patently absurd, nauseatingly narcissistic idea would require any proof at all.

 

[buddhist]

It first needs to be explained why such a patently absurd, nauseatingly narcissistic idea would require any proof at all.

Why is it absurd or narcissistic? I believe it is realistic.

Everything we experience isn't "out there". What we experience in our consciousness is "in here", in our minds. We are experiencing various sensory inputs in our minds and consciousnesses. When I "touch the desk" in front of me, I am in reality experiencing bioelectrical sensations in my mind which it interprets as a "desk". I am not directly experiencing a desk itself.

 

[Quintessence]

Why is it absurd or narcissistic? I believe it is realistic.

Everything we experience isn't "out there". What we experience in our consciousness is "in here", in our minds. We are experiencing various sensory inputs in our minds and consciousnesses. When I "touch the desk" in front of me, I am in reality experiencing bioelectrical sensations in my mind which it interprets as a "desk". I am not directly experiencing a desk itself.

That's not what it sounded like you were saying, my apologies.

It sounded like you were saying there is no external reality (aka, "objective" reality) whatsoever that is responsible for these inputs, and that each individual human somehow creates all of reality in their tiny little brains. The notion that humans "created" the sun, for example, is patently absurd and narcissistic.

 

[Fool]

I've been in a debate over objective reality which has wetted my appetite, but unfortunately the individual I was debating refuses to engage in actual philosophy. So now I bring the question to all! Can you prove objective reality exists? That other minds are real, that you're not a brain in a vat, that there is an objective universe, and so on? Arguments and evidence are great, but proof would definitely win you some points, though I don't believe such proof is possible.

the Absolute could not be objective. there is nothing apart from it to objectify.


a house divided against itself, will fall.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

The only way you can even begin to have a hope of proving the existence of an objective reality is if you can first prove that your mind/consciousness isn't creating everything else.

Trying to understand.
My grandfathers reality was objective , he his dead but I still exist ? Did my mind create my grandfather as part of my illusion . If my grandchildren still exist after my death , this would prove my reality was indeed objective .?

 

[Erebus]

I've been in a debate over objective reality which has wetted my appetite, but unfortunately the individual I was debating refuses to engage in actual philosophy. So now I bring the question to all! Can you prove objective reality exists? That other minds are real, that you're not a brain in a vat, that there is an objective universe, and so on? Arguments and evidence are great, but proof would definitely win you some points, though I don't believe such proof is possible.

I don't think anybody can determine the true nature of reality one way or another. It seems to me that our senses are prone to flaws, our capacity for knowledge is finite and our experience of the universe is miniscule. We just have to do what we can with what we've got. It's why I personally favour a more pragmatic viewpoint.

That aside, I've never seen anybody describe "objective reality" in a manner that's both consistent and practical.

 

[Curious George]

I've been in a debate over objective reality which has wetted my appetite, but unfortunately the individual I was debating refuses to engage in actual philosophy. So now I bring the question to all! Can you prove objective reality exists? That other minds are real, that you're not a brain in a vat, that there is an objective universe, and so on? Arguments and evidence are great, but proof would definitely win you some points, though I don't believe such proof is possible.

However could you account for consistency otherwise?

 

[Curious George]

I don't think anybody can determine the true nature of reality one way or another. It seems to me that our senses are prone to flaws, our capacity for knowledge is finite and our experience of the universe is miniscule. We just have to do what we can with what we've got. It's why I personally favour a more pragmatic viewpoint.

That aside, I've never seen anybody describe "objective reality" in a manner that's both consistent and practical.

Consistent with what, and practical with regard to what?

 

[outhouse]

Objective reality is the physical word that we can all observe. If a scientist can see it, then it is objectively real.

 

[Curious George]

Why is it absurd or narcissistic? I believe it is realistic.

Everything we experience isn't "out there". What we experience in our consciousness is "in here", in our minds. We are experiencing various sensory inputs in our minds and consciousnesses. When I "touch the desk" in front of me, I am in reality experiencing bioelectrical sensations in my mind which it interprets as a "desk". I am not directly experiencing a desk itself.

Yet something out there is affecting what you sense in here.

 

[Curious George]

Objective reality is the physical word that we can all observe. If a scientist can see it, then it is objectively real. Everything else is subjective imagnation.

Sounds like you are describing the phenomenal world, not something that must be objective reality. But the existence of the phenomenal world entails the noumenal world does it not?

 

[buddhist]

That's not what it sounded like you were saying, my apologies.

It sounded like you were saying there is no external reality (aka, "objective" reality) whatsoever that is responsible for these inputs, and that each individual human somehow creates all of reality in their tiny little brains. The notion that humans "created" the sun, for example, is patently absurd and narcissistic.

I'm not saying that there is no external/objective reality ... it's just that we can't begin to prove it until we can prove that everything doesn't just exist in our imagination.

 

[buddhist]

Trying to understand.
My grandfathers reality was objective , he his dead but I still exist ? Did my mind create my grandfather as part of my illusion . If my grandchildren still exist after my death , this would prove my reality was indeed objective .?

Can you prove that your grandchildren exist after you're dead? Can you prove that your grandfather wasn't created by your imagination?

 

[buddhist]

Yet something out there is affecting what you sense in here.

How do you know that? Perhaps your mind or consciousness is creating a feedback loop for itself, providing itself inputs to experience?