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Objective morality

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
It is, as there is nothing left to differentiate them in that context.
How do you know? Have you ruled out all possible criteria that could be used to say that my morality is better than your own, or vice-versa? (Logical soundness, consistency, and symmetry are good ones.) I think you're assuming an objective morality exists before you even try.
 

vepurusg

Member
How do you know? Have you ruled out all possible criteria that could be used to say that my morality is better than your own, or vice-versa?

The former, of course; I can't say that the latter would make sense given my position.

I think you're assuming an objective morality exists before you even try.

I'm assuming that the word is meaningful to deduce that it must then represent a consistent and coherent concept. I went over my assumptions a few pages back.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
how do use objective morality to show evidence of God:)
You would have to show evidence of go before you could prove what his opinion is. Far as I can tell anything that is going on now, God would have to be in approval otherwise if he has any real control over it.
 

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
I am waiting for someone to produce a list of Objective Ethics and Morals that are applicable to all homo sapiens, past and present.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
I am waiting for someone to produce a list of Objective Ethics and Morals that are applicable to all homo sapiens, past and present.
Declaration of independence came close. Everything beyond the famous passage becomes subjective but shouldn't conflict with that basic principle.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

"This has been called "one of the best-known sentences in the English language"[4], containing "the most potent and consequential words in American history."[5] The passage came to represent a moral standard to which the United States should strive"

United States Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Declaration of independence came close. Everything beyond the famous passage becomes subjective but shouldn't conflict with that basic principle.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

"This has been called "one of the best-known sentences in the English language"[4], containing "the most potent and consequential words in American history."[5] The passage came to represent a moral standard to which the United States should strive"

United States Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nice but for the clause: "that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights."
 

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
Declaration of independence came close. Everything beyond the famous passage becomes subjective but shouldn't conflict with that basic principle.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

"This has been called "one of the best-known sentences in the English language"[4], containing "the most potent and consequential words in American history."[5] The passage came to represent a moral standard to which the United States should strive"

United States Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While I agree with it in principal, it is still subjective to opinion and situation.

  1. Not all men are created (born) equal. Every individual has differing mental and physical attributes from birth. I would rather that everyone has equal opportunities to take advantage of their mental and physical attributes.
  2. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are contingent upon the current social norm and the effects those rights have on others.
  3. The obvious assumption of a Creator to justify those rights.


But as a moral standard based on reason and enlightenment, it ranks at there top, in my opinion.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
I am waiting for someone to produce a list of Objective Ethics and Morals that are applicable to all homo sapiens, past and present.

Don't interfere with the free will of others.
Simple, logical, and not a very long list.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
But anyone's practice of free will can effect others, so restrictions have to exist to protect social harmony.

Well yes, we interact. But we do so in line with our free will (whether that is an illusion or not). When two people have sex, they both are freely choosing to do so. When someone is raped, their free will is violated.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
If my free will is interfered with by that rule, nope.

That's the point of objective vs subjective. If your free will is interfered with by that you should see someone. The only reason one would be against this is if they wish to rape, molest, murder, etc. This only interferes with such things.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
If they are what I choose, your rule isn't objective.

What do you mean? If we set up objective morals, the individual disagreeing means nothing. That's like saying 2 + 2 = 4 is subjective because you can disagree.

We say that the moral law is do not harm / interfere with the free will of others.
You say, 'hey, I want to rape someone, so I'm going to."
Well, that's all fine and dandy, but suffer the consequence for violating the law. Same as now except one law that can apply to all.
 

Gjallarhorn

N'yog-Sothep
What do you mean? If we set up objective morals, the individual disagreeing means nothing. That's like saying 2 + 2 = 4 is subjective because you can disagree.

We say that the moral law is do not harm / interfere with the free will of others.
You say, 'hey, I want to rape someone, so I'm going to."
Well, that's all fine and dandy, but suffer the consequence for violating the law. Same as now except one law that can apply to all.
If you have to set up an objective moral, it's not objective.
 

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
What do you mean? If we set up objective morals, the individual disagreeing means nothing. That's like saying 2 + 2 = 4 is subjective because you can disagree.

We say that the moral law is do not harm / interfere with the free will of others.
You say, 'hey, I want to rape someone, so I'm going to."
Well, that's all fine and dandy, but suffer the consequence for violating the law. Same as now except one law that can apply to all.
What shall we do with the offender?

If another social group harms the society under these rules, how should the society react?
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
If you have to set up an objective moral, it's not objective.

I see what you are saying, that kind of makes sense. It's not actually objective, although we can set up a system the is logically best for everyone, and logic is objective not subjective. Interesting point. If by objective morality we mean that there is a moral system that can be discovered and proven (like the laws of logic or physics), then no there is no such thing.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
What shall we do with the offender?

If another social group harms the society under these rules, how should the society react?

What do you mean "another social group?" I am saying that this rule can apply to all groups. What to do with an offender is simple: equal punishment. Our whole rehabilitation based system is a joke, it accomplishes nothing. Torture the rapist, kill the murderer, take from the thief...
 
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