1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Obedience to God is Love for God, Sin is Hatred for God

Discussion in 'Catholic DIR' started by Steven Merten, Nov 19, 2019.

?
  1. True

    3 vote(s)
    60.0%
  2. False

    2 vote(s)
    40.0%
  1. Steven Merten

    Steven Merten Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2019
    Messages:
    113
    Ratings:
    +19
    Religion:
    Catholic

    Deuteronomy 5:6
    'I, the LORD, am your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. You shall not have other gods besides me. You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth; you shall not bow down before them or worship them. For I, the LORD, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishments for their fathers' wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the third and fourth generation but bestowing mercy, down to the thousandth generation, on the children of those who love me and keep my commandments.

    John 15:22

    "If I had not come to them and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; now, however, their sin cannot be excused. To hate me is to hate my Father. Had I not performed such works among them as no one has ever done before, they would not be guilty of sin; but as it is, they have seen, and they go on hating me and my Father."

    1 John 5:3

    For the love of God is this, that we keep his commandments.

    John 14:15

    If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

    God gave man human free will. Man can choose to either, love God through obedience to God’s Commands, or man can choose to hate God through sin. Those who choose to love God, through obedience to His Will, maybe not perfectly, but with all their heart, with all their mind, with all their strength and with all their soul, Jesus Promises to harvest into eternal life through His blood. Those who hate God through unrepentant sin, Jesus tells us that He will burn them in hell upon judgement day.

    Do we all agree that to Obey God is Love for God? Do we all agree that to sin is to hate God?



    Matthew 7:21
    "None of those who cry out, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of God but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. When that day comes, many will plead with me, 'Lord, Lord,' have we not prophesied in your name? have we not exorcized demons by its power? Did we not do many miracles in your name as well? Then I will declare to them solemnly, I never knew you. Out of my sight, you evildoers!"

    Matthew 13:36
    "He who sows good seed is the Son of Man, the field is the world, the good seed the children of the kingdom. The weeds are the children of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. Just as weeds are collected and burned (up) with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will collect out of his kingdom all who cause others to sin and all evildoers. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears ought to hear."

    Luke 18:18
    "Good teacher, what must I do to share in everlasting life?"Jesus said to him, "Why call me 'good'? None is good but God alone. You know the commandments:

    'You shall not commit adultery.

    You shall not kill.

    You shall not steal.

    You shall not bear dishonest witness.

    Honor your father and your mother.'"


    Luke 10:25
    "Teacher, what must I do to inherit everlasting life?" Jesus answered him: "What is written in the law? How do you read it?" He replied:

    "You shall love the Lord your God

    with all your heart,

    with all your soul,

    with all your strength,

    and with all your mind;

    and your neighbor as yourself."

    Jesus said, "You have answered correctly. Do this and you shall live."
     
  2. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    Messages:
    28,737
    Ratings:
    +14,079
    I don't view my relationship to God as one of obedience, but as a loving communion where God is always there with open arms to heal and complete. Sin is just missing the mark. You can love God and still screw up. We're only human, after all.
     
  3. Steven Merten

    Steven Merten Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2019
    Messages:
    113
    Ratings:
    +19
    Religion:
    Catholic
    Matthew 25:31
    "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.' Then the righteous will answer him and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?' And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.' Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.' Then they will answer and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?' He will answer them,' Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.' And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

    Hello Frankenstein,
    Do you agree with Jesus, that He is going to separate the unrepentant wicked into hell on judgement day and bring those who do His Will, with all their hearts and with all their strength, into heaven? Do we agree that Jesus is not going to be there with open arms for the unrepentant wicked who did not strive to do Jesus' Will, with all their hearts, minds, strength and souls?
     
  4. Steven Merten

    Steven Merten Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2019
    Messages:
    113
    Ratings:
    +19
    Religion:
    Catholic
    Matthew 7:21
    "None of those who cry out, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of God but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. When that day comes, many will plead with me, 'Lord, Lord,' have we not prophesied in your name? have we not exorcized demons by its power? Did we not do many miracles in your name as well? Then I will declare to them solemnly, I never knew you. Out of my sight, you evildoers!"
    Who are the Christians who had faith in Jesus great enough to 'preform miracles', 'exorcise demons', and 'prophesy', in Jesus Name, on earth, yet Jesus says He never knew them, because they were evil doers? Jesus says He is going to burn these Christians in hell. Maybe they should have made it a point to obey Jesus' teachings to obey God with all their strength, while they were on earth.
     
  5. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    Messages:
    28,737
    Ratings:
    +14,079
    I'm not going to argue with you. If you think Jesus is wrathful and chucks people into hellfire, I think that's sad and ridiculously one-dimensional but you do you. "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." - Some Guy
     
  6. Steven Merten

    Steven Merten Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2019
    Messages:
    113
    Ratings:
    +19
    Religion:
    Catholic
    Hello Frankenstein,
    I am just preaching Jesus' teachings on salvation. If you do not like what Jesus teaches, don't blame me. ​
     
  7. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    Messages:
    28,737
    Ratings:
    +14,079
    I have no problem with Jesus, but I do have problems with how humans present Him. You're not supposed to be preaching or debating in DIRs, anyway. They're for fellowship and sharing, mostly.
     
  8. Steven Merten

    Steven Merten Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2019
    Messages:
    113
    Ratings:
    +19
    Religion:
    Catholic
    John 5:27
    "The Father has given over to him power to pass judgment because he is Son of Man; no need for you to be surprised at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in their tombs shall hear his voice and come forth. Those who have done right shall rise to live; the evildoers shall rise to be damned.
    Hello All,
    So why do you think Jesus spent so much time and emphasis on preaching hell and damnation? Though spiritual life and spiritual death teachings are found in old Testament, this dramatic image of hell came around from the teachings of Jesus and John the Baptist. Jesus loves us! Jesus wants us to know how to avoid burning in hell.
     
  9. Steven Merten

    Steven Merten Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2019
    Messages:
    113
    Ratings:
    +19
    Religion:
    Catholic
    Matthew 22:36 The Greatest Commandment.
    “Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?” He said to him, “You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment. The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.

    Does everyone understand that when Jesus gives us the two Great Commandments, He is quoting God the Father from Old Testament? It is God, in Old Testament, who summarizes all of His Commands with His Great Commandment, ‘You shall love the Lord your God, with all your heart, with all your mind, with all your strength and with all your mind (Deuteronomy 6:4). It is God in the Old Testament who summarizes His Commandments with His Great Commandment, ‘You Shall love your neighbor as yourself’ (Leviticus 19:18) .

    Jesus is quoting God the Father, in both words and concepts. The concept, in both the Old Testament and New Testament, is that the way we love God with all our hearts, and love our neighbor as ourselves, is to obey all God’s Commandments. This is why, when Jesus answers the question, ‘What must I do to share in everlasting life’, One time His answer is ‘Obey God’s Commandments’ and another time Jesus answers to Love God with all your heart, and your neighbor as yourself, is correct. Both answers mean the same exact thing, to obey God is to love God and neighbor. The whole Bible is based on how to love God. To obey God’s Commandments and teachings is how you love God with all your heart.

    Leviticus 19:1 Various Rules of Conduct.
    The LORD said to Moses, "Speak to the whole Israelite community and tell them: Be holy, for I, The LORD, your God, am holy. Revere your mother and father, and keep my sabbaths. I, the LORD, am your God. "Do not turn aside to idols, nor make molten gods for yourselves. I, the LORD, am your God. "When you sacrifice your peace offering to the LORD, if you wish it to be acceptable, it must be eaten on the very day of your sacrifice or on the following day. Whatever is left over until the third day shall be burned up in the fire. If any of it is eaten on the third day, the sacrifice will be unacceptable as refuse; whoever eats of it then shall pay the penalty for having profaned what is sacred to the LORD. Such a one shall be cut off from his people. "When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not be so thorough that you reap the field to its very edge, nor shall you glean the stray ears of grain. Likewise, you shall not pick your vineyard bare, not gather up the grapes that have fallen. These things you shall leave for the poor and the alien. I, the LORD, am your God. "You shall not steal. You shall not lie or speak falsely to one another. You shall not swear falsely by my name thus profaning the name of your God. I am the LORD. "You shall not defraud or rob your neighbor. You shall not withhold overnight the wages of your day laborer. You shall not curse the deaf, or put a stumbling block in front of the blind, but you shall fear your God. I am the LORD. "You shall not act dishonestly in rendering judgment. Show neither partiality to the weak nor deference to the mighty, but judge your fellow men justly. You shall not go about spreading slander among your kinsmen; nor shall you stand by idly when your neighbor's life is at stake. I am the LORD. "You shall not bear hatred for your brother in your heart. Though you may have to reprove your fellow man, do not incur sin because of him. Take no revenge and cherish no grudge against your fellow countrymen. You shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD."
    Deuteronomy 5:6
    'I, the LORD, am your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. You shall not have other gods besides me. You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth; you shall not bow down before them or worship them. For I, the LORD, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishments for their fathers' wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the third and fourth generation but bestowing mercy, down to the thousandth generation, on the children of those who love me and keep my commandments. 'You shall not take the name of the LORD, your God, in vain. For the LORD will not leave unpunished him who takes his name in vain. 'Take care to keep holy the sabbath day as the LORD, your God, commanded you. Six days you may labor and do all your work; but the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD, your God. No work may be done then, whether by you, or your son or daughter, or your male or female slave, or your ox or *** or any of your beasts, or the alien who lives with you. Your male and female slave should rest as you do. For remember that you too were once slaves in Egypt, and the LORD, your God, brought you from there with his strong hand and outstretched arm. That is why the LORD, your God, has commanded you to observe the sabbath day. 'Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD, your God, has commanded you, that you may have a long life and prosperity in the land which the LORD, your God, is giving you. 'You shall not kill. 'You shall not commit adultery. 'You shall not steal. 'You shall not bear dishonest witness against your neighbor. 'You shall not covet your neighbor's wife. 'You shall not desire your neighbor's house or field, nor his male or female slave, nor his ox or ***, nor anything that belongs to him.' "These words, and nothing more, the LORD spoke with a loud voice to your entire assembly on the mountain from the midst of the fire and the dense cloud. He wrote them upon two tablets of stone and gave them to me(DEU 5:23)....//....(DEU 6:1)"These then are the commandments, the statutes and decrees which the LORD, your God, has ordered that you be taught to observe in the land into which you are crossing for conquest, so that you and your son and your grandson may fear the LORD, your God, and keep, throughout the days of your lives, all his statutes and commandments which I enjoin on you, and thus have long life. Hear then, Israel, and be careful to observe them, that you may grow and prosper the more, in keeping with the promise of the LORD, the God of your fathers, to give you a land flowing with milk and honey. "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD alone! Therefore, you shall love the LORD, your God, with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength. Take to heart these words which I enjoin on you today. Drill them into your children. Speak of them at home and abroad, whether you are busy or at rest. Bind them at your wrist as a sign and let them be as a pendant on your forehead. Write them on the doorposts of your houses and on your gates.

     
    #9 Steven Merten, Nov 20, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
  10. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2014
    Messages:
    2,501
    Ratings:
    +1,114
    Religion:
    Catholicism
    Few sins in being committed are specifically motivated by a hatred of God as most sins are born of weakness over malice. Sin becomes malicious when it is held onto. To choose what puts one at odds with God and to retain that choice until the end is to make the decision to hate God. Only when the veil between this life and the next is crossed will the enormity of such a choice be felt, as the soul that has chosen to remain in sin is barred from the source of everlasting happiness.

    Nonetheless, no one still breathing is in a state of irrevocable enmity with God. Even the worst sinner can restore friendship with God with but a single confession.
     
  11. Steven Merten

    Steven Merten Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2019
    Messages:
    113
    Ratings:
    +19
    Religion:
    Catholic
    I think Jesus’, ‘The Sheep and the Goats’ parable, is a good example of loving Jesus, through Loving the Least of Jesus’ Brothers, by obeying God’s Commandments to tithe and care for the poor.


    "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.' Then the righteous will answer him and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?' And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.' Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.' Then they will answer and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?' He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.' And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."


    Leviticus 19 Various Rules of Conduct.

    "When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not be so thorough that you reap the field to its very edge, nor shall you glean the stray ears of grain. Likewise, you shall not pick your vineyard bare, not gather up the grapes that have fallen. These things you shall leave for the poor and the alien. I, the LORD, am your God. "You shall not steal. You shall not lie or speak falsely to one another. You shall not swear falsely by my name thus profaning the name of your God. I am the LORD. "You shall not defraud or rob your neighbor. You shall not withhold overnight the wages of your day laborer. You shall not curse the deaf, or put a stumbling block in front of the blind, but you shall fear your God. I am the LORD. "You shall not act dishonestly in rendering judgment. Show neither partiality to the weak nor deference to the mighty, but judge your fellow men justly. You shall not go about spreading slander among your kinsmen; nor shall you stand by idly when your neighbor's life is at stake. I am the LORD. "You shall not bear hatred for your brother in your heart. Though you may have to reprove your fellow man, do not incur sin because of him. Take no revenge and cherish no grudge against your fellow countrymen. You shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD."
     
Loading...