Obama or Trump?

[columbus]

If you search for "USA deficit spending" (as I have), you'll discover your error,
ie, that borrowing & spending is the norm for both parties. One brief exception
was when Clinton (D) & Gingrich (R) cooperated to experience a surplus.
So much for your claimed 'facts'.

Not all of us were around in the nineteenth century.

But one of the regular Republican tropes is that the deficit went up under Obama. When the obvious truth is that Obama inherited a bunch of unfunded mandates, because the government under the Republicans had tied on a bunch of obligations. From Medicaid D to paying for The Wars to paying the interest on all that borrowing they did.
So no, don't draw a false equivalency between Obama paying on Republican debts and the Republicans running up those debts.

Just like Trump is planning to do again.
Tom

 

[Flame]

Lucky you. I love solitude.

It can be but summer months there's no such thing solitude in major tourist spots.

 

[Revoltingest]

Not all of us were around in the nineteenth century.

Clinton & Gingrich are 20th century leaders.
This aggressive hebetude in your posts is tiring.

 

[Nakosis]

If you search for "USA deficit spending" (as I have), you'll discover your error,
ie, that borrowing & spending is the norm for both parties. One brief exception
was when Clinton (D) & Gingrich (R) cooperated to experience a surplus.
So much for your claimed 'facts'.

Supposedly it's not really an issue unless the interest on that debt get to about 12%. Right now it's about 2.5%

The real issue is what that money is spent on. Which is mostly on Congress to decide.

 

[Father Heathen]

The poll results are a good example of people being blindly loyal to a political party rather than taking an objective look at character and performance.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

The US is not an authoritarian country, at least not yet.

I don't see how that makes calling one's political opponents traitors to the United States any more desired. It says a lot about who 45 is. I disagree with Republicans on a lot of things, but I would never suggest they are inherently treasonous. I know their hearts are in the right place. This kind of divisive rhetoric is like nothing we've ever seen before. Democrats and Republicans work together in this government. It's not perfect, but it is what it is.

 

[Revoltingest]

Supposedly it's not really an issue unless the interest on that debt get to about 12%. Right now it's about 2.5%

The real issue is what that money is spent on. Which is mostly on Congress to decide.

Certainly, we cope with deficit spending & a burgeoning national debt.
But I'm not a fan of having this disconnect between spending & taxation
to finance it. (Note that deficit spending as a temporary Keynesian remedy
for a recession can be defended as productive, but as a permanent policy
I oppose it.) I say it leads to bad policy because the public doesn't consider
the costs of any government action.

I found a cromulent chart to illustrate the situation.
Please ignore the editorializing about one President in the group.

As I noted before, Clinton's presidency was marked by unusual cooperation
on the budget with New Gingrich as leader of a Republican Congress.
(It helps to avoid starting or continuing wars too.)
This points to bi-partisanship as a necessary component of balancing a budget.

The above chart is too old to include projections for Trump, which appear to
continue bi-partisan deficit spending.
Ref....
Budget Deficits Are Projected to Balloon Under the Bipartisan Spending Deal

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

I recall promising to discuss more politics in a thread, and I figure the time has come. That is to say- enough time has passed since Trump entered office, and Obama left it. America has gotten to see both of them in action.

Tell us your opinion: who does president better? Obama or Trump? If you are willing- kindly expound on your choice.

Gracious!

You might as well poll sheep as to whether they prefer grass or mutton.

 

[bobhikes]

You just don't understand Americastanian politics.
My guy is smart, educated, ethical, experienced & a great dancer.
Your guy is dumb, uneducated, immoral, inexperienced, & has 2 left feet.
There is no middle ground, because to even entertain that thought
would be to commit a false equivalence fallacy. Prolly racist too.

I disagree there is a middle ground. I have been a part of it for years. Of the presidents, I could vote for in my life, I voted for Ronald Reagan once and Barrack Obama once. Otherwise I have voted 3rd party. I hated Bill Clinton and George W Bush but I still voted 3 party. I really hate Donald Trump at least 10 times more then either Clinton or Bush and am considering to vote democrat just to be sure he doesn't get 4 more years. I can't say I will but I can't say I won't.

 

[Father Heathen]

Hehe. I see Trump more as the greatest Troll who has yet surfaced. The only way I can explain his bizarre tweets is that he is throwing red meat at hungry lions - who never cease to take the bait. In some ways, if it is intentional deflection, his tweets are brilliant. If they are meant to be taken seriously... that is problematic.

You can't honestly believe that Trump is consciously putting on a well orchestrated act, damaging the country's reputation and relations, setting America back many years, and ****ing up the people's livelihoods, rights, etc.just to amuse himself? He would have to be very calculating and cunning, but looking at how he has conducted himself over his life and career would suggest otherwise. Trolling is something you do on the internet when you're bored, not when you have the powers and responsibilities of POTUS.

 

[Revoltingest]

I disagree there is a middle ground.

It was a joke about extremes for my somewhat clueless Canuckistanian friend.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I recall promising to discuss more politics in a thread, and I figure the time has come. That is to say- enough time has passed since Trump entered office, and Obama left it. America has gotten to see both of them in action.

Tell us your opinion: who does president better? Obama or Trump? If you are willing- kindly expound on your choice.

Gracious!

Obama for the beer, Trump for getting the job done.

 

[columbus]

As I noted before, Clinton's presidency was marked by unusual cooperation
on the budget with New Gingrich as leader of a Republican Congress.

It was also marked by the Republicans ripping up the country with the opening salvos of the new hyper-partisan Washington DC. That was called the Clinton Impeachment Proceedings.
Clinton was busy defending himself and didn't really get much done. But that didn't really matter, his best attribute was staying out of the way after he signed NAFTA.
Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

It was also marked by the Republicans ripping up the country with the opening salvos of the new hyper-partisan Washington DC. That was called the Clinton Impeachment Proceedings.
Clinton was busy defending himself and didn't really get much done. But that didn't really matter, his best attribute was staying out of the way after he signed NAFTA.

Pay attention.
We were discussing deficit spending.

 

[Wu Wei]

Tell us your opinion: who does president better? Obama or Trump? If you are willing- kindly expound on your choice.

I really can't say since I personally like Obama better than Trump..... I would need to get the emotion out of the equation to properly answer the question. Also, not even half way through Trumps first term in office it is kind of hard to compare his presidency to a 2 term president at this point, IMO

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Also, not even half way through Trumps first term in office it is kind of hard to compare his presidency to a 2 term president at this point, IMO

I'm wondering if people still giving him the benefit of a doubt expect him to just suddenly change overnight into a better, more empathetic person?

 

[Wu Wei]

I'm wondering if people still giving him the benefit of a doubt expect him to just suddenly change overnight into a better, more empathetic person?

I'm not, I just can't do a fair comparison based on time in office and my current "feelings" about the two. And empathy, or the lack there of, IMO, does not make a good or bad president. TO be honest I don't think there are a whole lot of politicians out there that are all that empathetic.... a few might be good a faking it.... but very few, if any, are genuinely empathetic

 

[Buddha Dharma]

TO be honest I don't think there are a whole lot of politicians out there that are all that empathetic.... a few might be good a faking it.... but very few, if any, are genuinely empathetic

Some research suggests you're right, so I cannot contradict your assessment.

 

[Wu Wei]

Some research suggests you're right, so I cannot contradict your assessment.

I have an unfair advantage here.... I work around politicians all the time...from both parties...so I get to see things others may not

 

[YmirGF]

I'm wondering if people still giving him the benefit of a doubt expect him to just suddenly change overnight into a better, more empathetic person?

I'm under no such illusions. Then again, I certainly don't expect him to suddenly turn around and do precisely what his opponents would have expected (or hoped) Saint Hillary would have done. I very much doubt that will happen.