Obama & I going gray together. Warning: Vent!

[*Anne*]

You'll have to forgive me for being vague ~ I don't want to share certain personal details online. So I'll break it down to this:

1) I live in a country where I'm free to vote and think how I like.

2) I live in a family who will say I'm free to vote and think how I like, but they don't really mean it because...

3) if I dare to disagree, even slightly, I will get hammered big time.

4) So I'm allowed to have my opinions as long as they match the majority of opinions around me. If my opinions do not match, I am expected to keep my mouth shut (Which is what I do 98% of the time. The other 2% starts off with a benign statement from me like, "Oh, I suppose I could see his point of view." I know...how inflammatory!).

Oh, and...

5) Apparently I'm surrounded by both domestic and foreign policy experts, as I'm the only one who has stated that I am not an expert in either nor do I know what goes on behind closed doors.

This isn't about one party vs another. This is about being grown up enough to hear an opposing thought or two without throwing a tantrum. I don't require people to think exactly like me. I don't give a crap if you voted Democrat, Republican, Green Party, or you wrote in your dog's name. You don't need to agree with me across the board on social or political issues. Who or if you worship doesn't even come into play. I recognize and respect that you have your reasons for thinking and living the way you do, and I won't harass you about it. Ever. I'll chat with you, I'll disagree perhaps, but I won't be obnoxious.

*growls*

Please tell me I'm not alone in this boat.

 

[Smoke]

We have an agreement in our family that it's better not to talk about politics and religion. We don't always honor that agreement, but when things get too heated, somebody will bring it up and we'll change the subject.

Strong opinions and quick tempers are a family tradition. I remember my paternal grandfather screaming at the television, and my maternal grandfather responded to the news of President Roosevelt's death with "It's about damned time."

Politically, my opinions and those of my husband and oldest nephew are in the neighborhood of Ralph Nader, my brother and his wife are in the neighborhood of Barry Goldwater, and my parents and younger aunt are concerned that Pat Buchanan is getting too liberal in his old age. So it's better if we don't talk about it.

 

[Kathryn]

My family is pretty obnoxious about politics and religion as well.

When my brother starts on one of his rampages, I usually just leave the room. When my mother starts telling me her latest conspiracy theory, well - she's my mother so I try to respect her, but I have learned not to tangle myself up with her.

They both get bored when I won't "play" and they will eventually lose interest. But I have to just grit my teeth to endure it!

 

[T-Dawg]

Well, my parents have forbid me from talking about politics with my sister. Of course, dad gets to play Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, and whatever other **** he listens to while she's in the car, and from talking to him, those kinds of shows are where he gets almost all of his news. (On a related note, dad frequently wonders "where get all my crazy ideas. It never occurs to him, even when I blatantly point it out, that's he's a far-right extremist himself, and that all of his news sources are ridiculously biased if not blatant misinformation.)
Somehow, my sister trusts dad more than she does me, which signals she's a lost cause.

Mom's slightly more intelligent, realizing that she has two officially "special-needs" kids (although really, my Asperger's is more of a benefit to me) and that democrats are generally more supportive of programs for those types of people than republicans (but they also raise taxes, so it's a tricky decision for her). Nowadays, however, she really doesn't give a damn anymore.

Grandma and Grandpa on my paternal side have recently gotten my dad to get them a sign for a conservative Republican candidate for state office (seriously, even the propaganda designed to make him look good makes him look terrible - he's PROUD of being a "pro-family" scumbag). This is a bad sign and signals that they too are idiots.

I know some of my more distant family members are libertarian capitalist nutjobs (I remember one saying that both parties are leading us to socialism O_O).


Yeah, my family sucks.

Politically, my opinions and those of my husband and oldest nephew are in the neighborhood of Ralph Nader, my brother and his wife are in the neighborhood of Barry Goldwater, and my parents and younger aunt are concerned that Pat Buchanan is getting too liberal in his old age. So it's better if we don't talk about it.

... isn't Pat Buchanan a hard-line Paleoconservative?

 

[Father Heathen]

I'm lucky that, of the family that I actually interact with on a regular basis, my dad is what I would describe as a libertarian deist, my mom is a christian democrat and my brother is pretty much on the same page as me philosophically and politically. My mom learned years ago that debating religion with me is not a good idea.

 

[MissAlice]

It's amazing how vicious people can get over politics. Normally I don't make a big thing out of it like most ppl unless we're disputing over something, even then I try and be polite about it or at least not go on a tangent.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Politics and religion are also topics that just aren't normally discussed in our family as well. I'll rant sporadically every now and then, and someone might rant back, but often times it just doesn't go in-depth.

My grandmother is one of my favorite people in the whole world. She also made it clear to me that she doesn't want to hear anything about my beliefs when I'm visiting. I respect that. It's her house.

Now when everyone is at my house, the tables are turned. And it's my rules that are followed.

This is the only place where I can let it all hang out with my views, so to speak. And that's okay. IMO, there's just a time and a place for everything.

 

[Revoltingest]

It sounds tough for you guys. In my family, I lecture & all listen. Although there was an
unpleasant episode with a couple louts I have for nephews. (They suffered from BDS.)

 

[Engyo]

It sounds tough for you guys. In my family, I lecture & all listen. Although there was an
unpleasant episode with a couple louts I have for nephews. (They suffered from BDS.)

Ever wonder if some of your family members feel like Anne?

 

[Revoltingest]

Ever wonder if some of your family members feel like Anne?

Feel? I have no idea how anyone feels.
Would that even matter?

 

[*Anne*]

I just wanted to clarify ~ I have two families, and the one that frustrates the living crap out of me (and is the fuel for the OP) does not contain my blood relatives. My parents (Republicans) and siblings (Republicans and Democrats) are very tolerant and way too classy. We're actually capable of discussing religion and politics without ticking anyone off.

Okay, I have to ask...Revoltingest, was is BDS?

 

[Revoltingest]

Okay, I have to ask...Revoltingest, was is BDS?

It's Bush Derrangement Syndrome. One of the symptoms is that any political disagreement
with a sufferer results in my being splattered with Dubya. (The stains do come out though.)

I sympathize. There are just some things I don't discuss with some relatives.

 

[YmirGF]

I just wanted to clarify ~ I have two families, and the one that frustrates the living crap out of me (and is the fuel for the OP) does not contain my blood relatives. My parents (Republicans) and siblings (Republicans and Democrats) are very tolerant and way too classy. We're actually capable of discussing religion and politics without ticking anyone off.

Okay, I have to ask...Revoltingest, was is BDS?

I hear ya *Anne*. In my family, we talk politics and religion quite a lot. If you can imagine it, in real life, I am fairly opinionated and can make my points with relative ease, no pun intended. I do recognize that many folks are not quite so adept at conveying their opinions and that does give me pause from reducing their arguments to smoking cinder.

One thing that endlessly amazes me in real life if how far people are willing to babble about topics they know relatively little about. During the G20 shindig in Toronto, the police had a small, somewhat unpleasant interaction with protesters. I'm not privy to the strategy of the police or that of the protesters and yet yesterday someone asked me, quite indignantly if I didn't agree that the police were quite wrong in their treatment of the affair. When I said I didn't know the facts and so could not arrive at a proper answer, I got "smoked" for being too supportive of the obviously brutal police. I continued with the "I don't know WHAT happened" line for a few minutes, but the person I was conversing with was going full steam ahead and had tried and convicted the police without being any more aware of "the facts" than I was.

I find this tendency, to reach wild conclusions, on the flimsiest of evidence, to be... troubling. Again, I could have put the poor creature out of its misery, but I just am not that hung up on "being right" - doubly so when I don't know what I am talking about. I'm just not that keen on getting hot under the collar over something I have not done minimal research on.

I have another friend who will launch into Global conspiracy theories at the drop of a hat and quite honestly, I can get her from "0 to 60" in about 4 seconds. I know exactly what buttons to push that will prime her for a 10 minute harangue that includes everything from Bush and Cheney to the Bilderburgs and Oprah. It is an amazing thing to see and absolutely captivates the armchair psychologist in me.

Contrary to how I might come across on RF, at times, I certainly don't pretend to have all the answers. In many posts I write, "I could be wrong". What a concept, eh? Granted, in real life, people simply do not tell me to shut up and keep my ideas to myself as I am usually able to broadcast my thinking in highly entertaining ways that make folks laugh. My advice to you is to try reverse psychology on such people.

Your post reminds me of one time, I was giving an offhand medical opinion to an older person. He stopped me cold. All he said was, "Wow, Paul, congratulations." Confused, I asked him what he was congratulating me on. He said, "I had no idea that you had gone through years of medical training and so I though it best to acknowledge your accomplishment." I got his point and wasn't threatened and just smiled. I'll never forget that little tidbit and have since used variations of this theme on others.

Another person I have always admired was many years ago, when I was in my "new age-ish evangelical mode". My girlfriend and I had a fellow in to do some carpentry. We were deep in conversation, in front of him at one point, and being liberal hippies, when the fellow turned to us to make a comment on what we were discussing, we eagerly, if not doubtfully, turned to listen. He started off, in somewhat broken English... "I don't know for sure, but for me, it is like this..." I've always remembered that man and appreciate the frankness and honesty that he demonstrated when discussing things with others. His intro of "I don't know for sure, but for me" automatically disarmed any desire to pummel his thinking - in reality, it made me embrace what he said after than. It seems like a perfectly reasonable way to begin a point to others.... though... I could be wrong....

 

[Willamena]

You'll have to forgive me for being vague ~ I don't want to share certain personal details online. So I'll break it down to this:

1) I live in a country where I'm free to vote and think how I like.

2) I live in a family who will say I'm free to vote and think how I like, but they don't really mean it because...

3) if I dare to disagree, even slightly, I will get hammered big time.

4) So I'm allowed to have my opinions as long as they match the majority of opinions around me.

Wow! It's just like your own Internet forum, at home.

 

[ChristineES]

In my household, my husband is conservative and I am not conservative. My husband talks politics all the time, and I can't get away from it. I don't even state my opinion anymore. I hate political talk, and I avoid it most of the time. Let's just say that he is very opinionated.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I rarely talk about politics or religion with anyone, including family. However, everyone has learned to avoid discussing it with me, particularly if they have an opposing view, as I'm unflappable, and don't give a crap about pushing people's buttons.

 

[NewEnglandGirl]

*Anne*, I feel for you. That is a difficult position to have been put and kept in. I hope you get some relief from that rigid line of thinking here and with friends outside of your immediate family.

I am not sure if I am lucky or not, but I have a very small family, much of which is too apathetic, in my opinion. So, the only deranged political arguments I get into are with a good friend on line, who is very hard line conservative. Once he gets wound up and going full steam, it can be pretty intimidating, but there are so many other things I value our friendship for that I usually give myself a few days off to recuperate and then carry on. What I will stop him cold for is starting the "you crazy left-wing liberal" stuff, since I am somewhat centrist with left-leanings. I tell him that I don't appreciate being labeled, and that will sometimes stop him mid-rant (not often enough). I also chewed him out once because when he presents me with a well thought out argument, with evidence to back his point of view, I change mine to more closely align with his. But he will not do that for me. I was floored when he finally started to criticize BP for shoddy work - it was a first, after maybe three years of friendship, and gave me hope for possible further change.

But in the end, I think YmirGF nailed it on the head. I believe it is about "being right at all cost" for most people who hammer home their points without giving your points any legitimacy, if you are even "allowed" to air them. And they seem to base their definition of self at least to some degree on how right they consistently are. Does that seem a reasonable conclusion?

Revoltingest, "BDS" made me choke on the water I was drinking as I read your post, I was laughing so hard. Thanks for giving us a new one to use!

 

[MysticSang'ha]

In my household, my husband is conservative and I am not conservative. My husband talks politics all the time, and I can't get away from it. I don't even state my opinion anymore. I hate political talk, and I avoid it most of the time. Let's just say that he is very opinionated.

Like I've said in other threads.....

I've heard duct tape works wonders. :yes:

 

[*Anne*]

Wow! It's just like your own Internet forum, at home.

Oh geez, you're right!

Christine, I don't blame you for not discussing it. We have peace if I keep my mouth shut. The second I open my mouth, there's drama.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

You'll have to forgive me for being vague ~ I don't want to share certain personal details online. So I'll break it down to this:

1) I live in a country where I'm free to vote and think how I like.

2) I live in a family who will say I'm free to vote and think how I like, but they don't really mean it because...

3) if I dare to disagree, even slightly, I will get hammered big time.

4) So I'm allowed to have my opinions as long as they match the majority of opinions around me. If my opinions do not match, I am expected to keep my mouth shut (Which is what I do 98% of the time. The other 2% starts off with a benign statement from me like, "Oh, I suppose I could see his point of view." I know...how inflammatory!).

Oh, and...

5) Apparently I'm surrounded by both domestic and foreign policy experts, as I'm the only one who has stated that I am not an expert in either nor do I know what goes on behind closed doors.

This isn't about one party vs another. This is about being grown up enough to hear an opposing thought or two without throwing a tantrum. I don't require people to think exactly like me. I don't give a crap if you voted Democrat, Republican, Green Party, or you wrote in your dog's name. You don't need to agree with me across the board on social or political issues. Who or if you worship doesn't even come into play. I recognize and respect that you have your reasons for thinking and living the way you do, and I won't harass you about it. Ever. I'll chat with you, I'll disagree perhaps, but I won't be obnoxious.

*growls*

Please tell me I'm not alone in this boat.

Key word is limits. It is a nice thought to say we are free and have freedom to say what we want. However that is just BS, cause we are never really free to say what we want without consequences.
As pointed out in my Judgment threads, no one can stop judging even for a second.

So how well does a judgmental creature like humans and an idea of freedom really coexist? I think it is a sham, and the word freedom is a fictitious carrot we all like to go after and try to chew on a bit.