Avi1001
reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
Not my position, at all.
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Obama authorizes air strikes in Iraq
- Thread starter MD
- Start date
Not my position, at all.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
You write as if you believe that foxes could be educated not to steal chickens, or humans taught not to be aggressive?
I would love to see your lesson plan that could educate humans not to be what they are........ warriors.
Avi1001
reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
That exact strategy has brought us to the intelligent position we are in today....the world has 20,000 nuclear weapons and we are waiting for the next one to drop. Lets hope it's not on an ally.
There are many ways to prevent foxes from stealing chickens....one of them is not killing all of both.
Phil25
Active Member
Then we need to take action.
Avi1001
reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
The action we need to take is to think first. It always looks like we need to go to war right away....until we find out later....oops we really didn't need to, and our actions made things worse, and we were given incorrect information and intelligence. Most likely the case here, again.
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oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
I mentioned no strategy.... ?
not killing all of both....... ? I did not understand this.
Look...... you want to educate humans not to go to war...... yes?
Well you need to start in simple ways, ad not move forward until you have succeeded in small ways.
For instance, neighbours can argue and have conflicts. True? So write a lesson plan than can educate all humans not to habe conflict with their neighbouring households. When you have succeeded with that you can educate all humans not to fight with their partners and spouses. etc.
Don't worry....... you're never going to reach the giddy heights of educating whole countries and cultures not to war, because you're going to fail with the domestic quarrels.... yes?
So let's talk about what we can do now to save innocent folks from murderous terrorists .... yes?
Avi1001
reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
Sure.....lets keep it real simple. If flying a few fighters over the heads of these ISIS guys solves all the problems in Iraq, no problem.
Is that what you believe will happen ? Or something else has to follow ? Mass bombing ? Civilian casualties ? Ground troops ? Other ? It doesn't matter, we have to do it ?
Maybe speak to our great allies ? What does Britain say about this disaster ? That wonderful country, France, the protector of minorities ? The peacemaking Germans ? The Japanese ?
And what about the intelligence ? Why are we just finding out now that 45 Churches in Mosul have been taken over by ISIS ? Did it happen yesterday ? Do we need to go to war right away, again ?
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Sorry for the confusion. Love for people who are unlike ourselves is an artificial or a spiritual love, not natural. Very few people maintain love purposely, intensively, for people that are not family. Most people love you while you are in the room. At the moment the Yazidis are 'In the room', and we are so proud of ourselves for caring about them for ten seconds. That was all I meant. I did not mean to say that they were second class.
One way to save the Yazidi would be to not just invade but to annex the region. Historically that is the only way to really change the place. I cannot suggest that we do that though. I stick to saying that we should do something, but I am not happy with the powers of the executive office here in the USA. There is too much power to start wars. Avi has a point though that if we go in briefly and leave, we can expect things to get increasingly worse in the region, since we are strangers. So...really there is no solution. Therefore we should do what we can, which is what we are doing. In the moment we should try to 'Save' the Yazidis. We can save them momentarily. Things are going to get worse, though. The insurgents will be encouraged. Our involvement, despite assurances to the contrary, will be resented.
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Thanks for the answer, Sir. Sorry that I misunderstood your words. God bless you.
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Phil25
Active Member
ISIS doesnt wait for us to finish thinking. Yezidis and Christians will be annihilated and we were still thinking.
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Avi1001
reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
How do you know this ? Do you want to send in ground troops now ?
The last time the USA went into Iraq bombing, it was to free the people.
How well did that work out?
Does the lack of Turkish, Iranian, or Russian airstrikes mean that they support genocide? Maybe it just means they are smart enough to know how effective bombing will be against a guerrilla army.
Tom
Charity
Let's go racing boys !
Oh puhlease!
If you're so concerned for the Yizidis and advocate for Iraq 3.0 - go sign-up!
Put your money where your mouth is. Don't lecture me on how horrible I am simply because I'd prefer not to have my country dragged into yet another pointless conflict in the Middle-East that will sow the seeds for Iraq 4.0 or maybe even Iran 1.0 (Iran 2.0 if you consider Operation Ajax).
You (like I) probably never even knew of these Yizidi people if it wasn't for this recent media coverage.
Just like how (in my opinion) no-one cared about the victims of the Rwandan genocide, or the genocide in East Timor. Personally (and honestly) what's happening to the Yzidis is not only out of my control, but (frankly) doesn't really impact me enough to make me want to become involved militarily.:sorry1:
The only difference between you and I, is that I actually am honest enough to admit that (as I'm typing away comfortably via my laptop in my First-World country) what happens to the Yizidis most-likely won't ever affect me to any significant degree. Same for the countless thousands across God-knows how many African countries who're facing similar hardships, or the people of North Korea etc etc.
Perhaps what is most ironic is that a lot of these supporters for Iraq 3.0 (because of systematic targeting and attack on civilians by ISIS) are also zealous supporters of the IDF's very recent systematic assault on the civilians of Gaza.
As if by magic, attitudes do a 180-turn.
I don't recall lecturing you, I like your dramatic drone....yada yada yada and I thank you, I would sign up but I'm too old for that but my husband and my son were both in combat so I think that covers the military aspect....
I just said I think if they get control where they are now...don't be surprised when they knock on the door here in America....
Like you, I am entitled to my opinion and reality is at hand, wise up. And people like you who choose to slumber and think it can't happen here are going to be in for a epiphany.......
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
How the hell do you propose peaceful resolution with the likes of ISIS?
Phil25
Active Member
Russians are already providing Military Planes to Iraqi Govt. If ISIS becomes more powerful there is no reason to suggest Turkey and Iran wont become involved.
After all who thought that America would again get involved in Iraq two weeks ago.
None of this is quite relevant. My question was why we are doing it when they are other powers better placed. We were effectively booted out by the Iraqis. Where are the other people who claim to oppose the horrors?
I had hoped Obama was clever and strong enough to resist the warhawks. Once again, he's a disappointment.
Tom
esmith
Veteran Member
Well maybe if we gave the Kurds the military hardware they asked for maybe they can take care of the problems in their area. We(the West) do not need to put a large force into the area. Just supply a little air support for the Kurds if they ask for it.
Oh and by the way, air power will not stop, say platoon of ISIS with heavy weapons to just walk up the mountain and kill any and all that are there. In addition air drops of food and water can't go on for ever.
Oh and by the way, air power will not stop, say platoon of ISIS with heavy weapons to just walk up the mountain and kill any and all that are there. In addition air drops of food and water can't go on for ever.
Sees
Dragonslayer
If it is something people can generally get behind without doubting the good intentions, the masses love a good fight, righteous violence, etc.