NYC’s anti-Semitic spree

[IndigoChild5559]

So were any of these factors present in the recent perpetrators? Were they raised in bigotry? Did they have a life-long history of spewing hatred against Jews? If they had some innate need to act out, why didn't they act out before now? What triggered their acting out, now?

I believe the trigger was the Jersey City shooting. It empowered them. The JC shooting was simply a case of terrorism fueled by religious indoctrination.

 

[rosends]

This was so well said it deserves to be read again.

I believe it is important to remember that the person advocating for "finding a reason" began his participation in this thread by positing what he thinks the reason is -- not because of a pre-existing relationship between the offender and the Jews victimized, or even between the offender and Jews in general. In fact, the rationalization wasn't at all about religion -- it was an attempt to link violence against Jews anywhere to a socio-political situation thousands of miles away about which that person has a particular opinion.

If this was just an attempt to understand hatred and its roots, then maybe that might be a useful exercise. Maybe. But when it is an agenda driven attempt to vilify and, implicitly, to suborn an idea that there is a conspiracy of silence, that one is not supposed to question certain things, it stops being anything reasonable

 

[Twilight Hue]

It seems it has more to do with people of colour feeling they have been used and abused by Jewish store owners and landlords.

My first thought was NOI and Farrakhan when I first heard about what happened.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

That's unfortunate, but the u.s. is also a less and less safe place for anyone. I have a have a hippie friend from the 60's (took photos of hendrix , saw the doors.. saw many greats) whom I talk to every couple weeks and he told me for example, that all the school shootings of these modern times were absolutely unheard of in his time. And that he never saw the government barricading block parties in town, for example, such that a car couldn't drive into until modern times. What is your observation to this end, since you have lived a good while as well? You probably never had anything that even compared to the vegas shooter etc. back in the 70's or 60's. It's horrible, horrible times we are in

Yes, I'm a boomer, so I've lived long enough to see it too. It's actually mixed. Some forms of violence are more common now, but over all, violence has gone down. According to FBI statistics, murders, rapes, and assaults are ALL down, even in urban areas, from what they once were. I discussed this with an old professor of mine, and he thought that perhaps this was simply because of demographics, that most violent crime was committed by young men, and quite frankly, there are just fewer young men these day than there used to be (boomers are aging, Xers are getting there, younger generations are simply smaller). I dunno. Maybe.

 

[columbus]

Hate is irrational.

Humans, as a group, aren't very rational.
If there is a God who Designed us, He made us that way.

To me, that's the true Problem of Evil. Why does God keep making humans that are not particularly smart, quite ignorant, and generally driven by instincts, habits, and mental processes that worked better when we were animals trying to survive in nature?

To me, the obvious answer is "There's no God who cares about what we believe, do, or what happens to us." God doesn't care about anything we humans care about. God is beyond caring."

It's the foundation of my morality. We humans need to care and need to be cared for. We must do it for each other, because there is no God who will do it for us. If we don't do it, it just won't happen and our lives will suffer.
Tom

 

[PureX]

Why do you look for reasons for anti-Semitism but not hatred of blacks or Mexicans or gays or women or whatever?

This is the topic at hand.

 

[PureX]

Hate feeds off of hate. One act of hatred will empower others to do the same. In particular, the shootings by the Black Hebrew Israelites in Jersey City have empowered other black anti-Semites to act out. Their hate was always there, but that one act of violence enabled them to find what it took to strike. This will roll for a while. How long? I don't know. As you say, it's a world wide trend.

Do we know that these perpetrators were members of that group? Were all of them? If not, what about the others? What is fueling this particular group's hatred for traditional Jews? Is there anything we can do about it?

 

[rosends]

There was just a shooting at a church in Texas. I wonder why no one is asking whether this was fueled by the actions of Denmark.

 

[PureX]

In the case of anti-Semitism, the hate is absolutely 100% irrational.

... Because the Jews have never done anything that could rationally inspire hatred? No offense, dude, but if I were a Palestinian right now, I'm betting I could find a whole lot of very rational reasons to hate the Jews.

 

[PureX]

Most people do not *consciously* choose to be bigots. They get swept up in it for reasons they are not aware of.

Awareness is not a human strong suit. But we still have to take responsibility for our choices, whether we are aware of them, or not.

 

[rosends]

... Because the Jews have never done anything that could rationally inspire hatred? No offense, dude, but if I were a Palestinian right now, I'm betting I could find a whole lot of very rational reasons to hate the Jews.

No, you couldn't. The fact that your hypothetical "Palestinian" can find reasons against a religious group, when his current problem is due to a political entity which is not synonymous with that group just proves either that all anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism, or that you think it is rational to displace hatred.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... I'm betting I could find a whole lot of very rational reasons to hate the Jews.

^ this is raw antisemitism

 

[PureX]

YEs, the ultra orthodox Jews stand out because of their traditional garb. Are you saying it is okay to target them for persecution because of their ethnic clothing? You don't think the US is big enough to handle that sort of diversity?

I'm saying that one would not know they were Jewish, otherwise. So I don't think it's a peculiarity to Jewishness that is making them targets. Nor is it their garb, as the Amish dress very similarly. So it's the idea that they are Jewish that seems to be at work. But what is it about that idea of being a Jew that is inspiring this new wave of violence? In Nazi Germany it was the idea that Jews were responsible for the economic hardship the German people were experiencing because they lost WW1. And it was the overwhelming desire among the German people not to accept their own responsibility for this hardship that made their desire for someone else to blame very alluring to them. And the Nazis found that throwing them the Jews to blame, coupled with grandiose speeches about Aryan superiority, made them very popular.

So what is fueling it, now?

 

[PureX]

Yes, I'm a boomer, so I've lived long enough to see it too. It's actually mixed. Some forms of violence are more common now, but over all, violence has gone down. According to FBI statistics, murders, rapes, and assaults are ALL down, even in urban areas, from what they once were. I discussed this with an old professor of mine, and he thought that perhaps this was simply because of demographics, that most violent crime was committed by young men, and quite frankly, there are just fewer young men these day than there used to be (boomers are aging, Xers are getting there, younger generations are simply smaller). I dunno. Maybe.

I think there was a significant discrepancy between the actuality of violence in the past, and the perception of it, to the actuality of violence, now, and the perception of it. We are simply FAR more aware of the violence in our society, now, than we were in the past.

 

[Rival]

I'm saying that one would not know they were Jewish, otherwise. So I don't think it's a peculiarity to Jewishness that is making them targets. Nor is it their garb, as the Amish dress very similarly. So it's the idea that they are Jewish that seems to be at work. But what is it about that idea of being a Jew that is inspiring this new wave of violence? In Nazi Germany it was the idea that Jews were responsible for the economic hardship the German people were experiencing because they lost WW1. And it was the overwhelming desire among the German people not to accept their own responsibility for this hardship that made their desire for someone else to blame very alluring to them. And the Nazis found that throwing them the Jews to blame, coupled with grandiose speeches delusions about Aryan superiority, made them very popular.

So what is fueling it, now?

You're looking way too much into this, really. It's just,

They're Jews.​

The end.

At least 3 of my family members have expressed casual anti-Semitism at some point. It's still 'OK' for these people to need no more reason.

 

[columbus]

^ this is raw antisemitism

No it isn't.
This is you confusing anti-Zionism for anti-Jewish bigotry.

This might be less of a problem if Zionists didn't identify as Jews as commonly as they do.
Tom

 

[sun rise]

In the latest stabbings and other attacks not much was said about White Nationalism, Neo- Nazis, or Trump.

Wonder why that is....

Maybe because the investigation is not over yet.

 

[PureX]

No, you couldn't. The fact that your hypothetical "Palestinian" can find reasons against a religious group, when his current problem is due to a political entity which is not synonymous with that group just proves either that all anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism, or that you think it is rational to displace hatred.

Rage doesn't inspire discernment. And as was already stated, most humans are not smart enough to differentiate between ethnicity and nationality without a lecture and a roadmap. And in the case of Israel, itself, there is no difference. So it's not all that surprising that some who's family was murdered by Israelis would see all Jews as a hated enemy. It may not comport with YOUR process of rationalization, but it will comport with that of a great many other people.

 

[sun rise]

I almost never meet a Jew and think to myself, "that person's a Jew". I would have no way of knowing he/she were Jewish until they told me. Which is why most of these attacks are against synagogues and Jews in traditional garb. Because the attackers wouldn't know their victims were Jews, otherwise. So the idea that Jews "stand out" in some way is not that reasonable. So is there something about Judaism, itself, that invites this ire? I don't see it, either.

In the past, in Europe, I think Jews were 'stand-offish' relative to the communities in which they lived, and this invited the ire of the people around them. They were viewed as being elitists, and that did make them targets. But I'm not seeing that these days. Most Jews blend into their surrounding society so well that they are nearly indistinguishable. So there would be no reason for that old elitist ire to manifest.

So, if it's not a personality clash, and it's not a religious/ideological clash, what it is?

Jews were stand-offish? When they were confined to the Pale, suffered from Pogroms by bigots, not allowed in certain professions and so forth. Give me a break.

 

[sun rise]

The Ku Klux Klan used to say "the Jew is using the black" years ago, now you see "woke" people of colour saying the same thing.

Blame the left. Typical