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NYC’s anti-Semitic spree

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
The idea that STRONG families make strong nations is true.
Tell me what the term "strong family" means, to you?

In my experience, it means middle class, nuclear, heterosexual families. Like mine. And very white, because we all know that black people don't usually do that.
But for most of human history, a strong family was a multigenerational thing. The elders ran the show. Women took care of the house and garden. Men did everything else. Child care was a group responsibility.
It wasn't a couple with a detached house raising kids by themselves.

But that's what I see in America described as a strong family. Very insular.
And very white.
That's why I think that when some people refer to "Strong families make strong nations", what they really mean is families like the one I want are better than others.

Tom
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
Tell me what the term "strong family" means, to you?

In my experience, it means middle class, nuclear, heterosexual families. Like mine. And very white, because we all know that black people don't usually do that.
But for most of human history, a strong family was a multigenerational thing. The elders ran the show. Women took care of the house and garden. Men did everything else. Child care was a group responsibility.
It wasn't a couple with a detached house raising kids by themselves.

But that's what I see in America described as a strong family. Very insular.
And very white.
That's why I think that when some people refer to "Strong families make strong nations", what they really mean is families like the one I want are better than others.

Tom

"Strong families" to me means....people who are together in a permanent....and that means CONTRACTUALLY permanent, if they aren't blood relatives....loving relationship where each person loves and takes care of the others.

As it happens, African Americans seem to be having a problem with that right now, when 71% of their babies are born out of wedlock, raised by single mothers with fathers that don't show up. They USED to have strong, solid families. According to the birth stats, this didn't start happening until the mid to late sixties. I don't know what happened and why they don't now.

But I'll blame Democrats because I can and because it's fun.

The idea that strong families can only happen in white, middle class heterosexual folks is about the most racist, homophobic and classist claim I have EVER heard, to be honest.
 
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ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
No. The idea that STRONG families make strong nations is true.
And what do you think white supremacists MEAN by "strong families"?

It is ALSO true that right now, African Americans are far more likely NOT to have 'strong families,' and they should.
And why do you think that is?

That's not white supremacy and if you think so, you really are missing the point. The idea of strong families, to you, is so obviously tied to white supremacism that you are utterly ignoring the FACT that strong families are a good thing for everybody. Period.
If you're just going to ignore everything I've written and make stuff up about me, there's no point in trying to explain anything to you.
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
And what do you think white supremacists MEAN by "strong families"?


And why do you think that is?

Lots of reasons....worthy of an entirely different thread. Suffice it to say that it is true that 71% of African American births are out of wedlock, and most African Americans now grow up in single parent households where the dad is mostly missing.


If you're just going to ignore everything I've written and make stuff up about me, there's no point in trying to explain anything to you.

I guess not, just as it seems there is no point in attempting to explain anything to you.

However, I will try one last time.

concepts like 'strong families' are GOOD concepts. If you allow a group like white supremacists co opt that idea so that the only thing you think about when you see 'strong families' is white supremacy, you are allowing THEM to achieve their propagandistic goals. Suddenly, if one has a strong family, or advocates for strong, nuclear families, everybody thinks of you as a white supremacist.

When in actuality, strong families are good for everybody, no matter what color one is. Don't let people you don't like take good concepts away from you.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Lots of reasons....worthy of an entirely different thread. Suffice it to say that it is true that 71% of African American births are out of wedlock, and most African Americans now grow up in single parent households where the dad is mostly missing.
Then let me ask another question: Do you think you and white supremacists would agree on what the reasons for this are?

I guess not, just as it seems there is no point in attempting to explain anything to you.

However, I will try one last time.

concepts like 'strong families' are GOOD concepts.
That depends entirely on what you actually MEAN and BELIEVE by strong families.

If you allow a group like white supremacists co opt that idea so that the only thing you think about when you see 'strong families' is white supremacy, you are allowing THEM to achieve their propagandistic goals.
Since I have repeatedly and explicitly explained that that's not what I have done, saying this is nonsense.

Suddenly, if one has a strong family, or advocates for strong, nuclear families, everybody thinks of you as a white supremacist.
That's not how propaganda works.

When in actuality, strong families are good for everybody, no matter what color one is.
But that's not what white supremacists believe, which is why then THEY talk about "strong families", they are attempting to SOUND like you do, but are actually advocating something entirely contrary to what you believe.

Do you understand yet?

Don't let people you don't like take good concepts away from you.
They haven't, and I've explained that repeatedly. Why are you repeating yourself?
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
Then let me ask another question: Do you think you and white supremacists would agree on what the reasons for this are?

Almost assuredly not....if 'white supremacists' believe that the reasons include some lack in African Americans that make them unable to do this.
It's not. After all, if that were true, there would never have been a time when African Americans did NOT have a culture that included strong families (that is, committed family relationships that included support from both nuclear and extended families). Since that is, historically, NOT true; until the late sixties they very much DID have.


That depends entirely on what you actually MEAN and BELIEVE by strong families.

I defined 'strong family." In case you missed it, I defined it again, above.


Since I have repeatedly and explicitly explained that that's not what I have done, saying this is nonsense.


That's not how propaganda works.


But that's not what white supremacists believe, which is why then THEY talk about "strong families", they are attempting to SOUND like you do, but are actually advocating something entirely contrary to what you believe.

That's their problem.

YOUR problem, as I am seeing it, is that you are so firmly associating the concept 'strong families' with white supremacy propaganda, that you have permanently associated the entire concept with them. Which means two things:

First, that every time you see the concept 'strong families" you think of white supremacy.
Second, that since white supremacy is bad, then anything they advocate is bad, and therefore strong families are bad.

What THEY are doing is taking a very good concept and doing very much the same thing....'strong families' is a good concept. Since white supremacists advocate strong families, then white supremacy is a good thing...indeed, anybody who does not advocate the idea of 'strong families' is bad. Therefore, anybody who opposes white supremacy is bad.

The logical and clear view is that 'strong families' is a good concept. Period. It is a good concept no matter who advocates it. Welding it to one's friend or one's enemy is a really dumb idea. Useless, and doesn't get to the meat of the problem at all.

The IDEA here is to be smarter than the signs, in other words.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Hate is irrational.
Not always. Sometimes people become racist due to past experiences. I know of white people in majority black areas who have been bullied and abused by blacks and so become racists. My mother was robbed 3 times at gunpoint within one year by black teens and became fearful of young black men after that (mind you, she had me with her second husband, who was black). A friend has been raped by black men and abused in other ways by black guys and she is afraid of them and says racist things due to trauma. A Palestinian guy from East Jerusalem doesn't like Jews very much because of how the Israelis treat his people and his family. I myself have problems with both blacks and whites due to how they've treated me.

I could go on. The point is that a lot of times there's an understandable reason why people harbor prejudiced or hateful attitudes towards others. It's hardly irrational in those cases.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
... Because the Jews have never done anything that could rationally inspire hatred? No offense, dude, but if I were a Palestinian right now, I'm betting I could find a whole lot of very rational reasons to hate the Jews.
Yeah, a lot of people don't like Jews much due to the actions of the Israel government and the militant Israeli lobby's stranglehold on US foreign policy. There's also the issue of the wildly disproportional representation of Jews in positions of power in media, politics, finance and academia. It's easy to think there might be a conspiracy there.
 
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IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Not always. Sometimes people become racist due to past experiences. I know of white people in majority black areas who have been bullied and abused by blacks and so become racists. My mother was robbed 3 times at gunpoint within one year by black teens and became fearful of young black men after that (mind you, she had me with her second husband, who was black). A friend has been raped by black men and abused in other ways by black guys and she is afraid of them and says racist things due to trauma. A Palestinian guy from East Jerusalem doesn't like Jews very much because of how the Israelis treat his people and his family. I myself have problems with both blacks and whites due to how they've treated me.

I could go on. The point is that a lot of times there's an understandable reason why people harbor prejudiced or hateful attitudes towards others. It's hardly irrational in those cases.
First, let me say that when someone is harmed, my heart goes out to them. What I am about to say is not meant to minimize in any way the atrocious victimization that goes on in these sorts of crimes.

When a person has been victimized, and generalizes to a larger group of people from their small sampling (such as hating all blacks simply because they were raped by a black), this IS irrational.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
First, let me say that when someone is harmed, my heart goes out to them. What I am about to say is not meant to minimize in any way the atrocious victimization that goes on in these sorts of crimes.

When a person has been victimized, and generalizes to a larger group of people from their small sampling (such as hating all blacks simply because they were raped by a black), this IS irrational.
In your thinking. Also, humans are not fundamentally rational beings. We do group generalization as a form of threat assessment and survival. This is a very primal part of our psychology.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Almost assuredly not....if 'white supremacists' believe that the reasons include some lack in African Americans that make them unable to do this.
It's not. After all, if that were true, there would never have been a time when African Americans did NOT have a culture that included strong families (that is, committed family relationships that included support from both nuclear and extended families). Since that is, historically, NOT true; until the late sixties they very much DID have.
Then do you understand that when a white supremacist talks about "strong families" they are almost definitely talking about something different to you when you talk about "strong families"?

I defined 'strong family." In case you missed it, I defined it again, above.
Which is fine, as long as you understand that what YOU mean by strong families isn't the same as what everyone else means, which is entirely the point.

That's their problem.

YOUR problem, as I am seeing it, is that you are so firmly associating the concept 'strong families' with white supremacy propaganda, that you have permanently associated the entire concept with them.
Okay, I'm done with you. I've already explained this multiple times and you have continued to ignore what I've written and plough on making this ridiculous statement about me regardless.

Please try reading in future.
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
Then do you understand that when a white supremacist talks about "strong families" they are almost definitely talking about something different to you when you talk about "strong families"?


Which is fine, as long as you understand that what YOU mean by strong families isn't the same as what everyone else means, which is entirely the point.


Okay, I'm done with you. I've already explained this multiple times and you have continued to ignore what I've written and plough on making this ridiculous statement about me regardless.

Please try reading in future.
You keep harping on the idea that the white supremacists mean something different by 'strong families' than you and I do. I agree. They do. What I'm trying very hard to get through to you....and the point YOU AREN"T GETTING, is that this doesn't matter.

If they use 'strong families mean strong nations" in their propaganda, that DOES NOT MEAN that we need to worry about what they think when they say it. We not only do not, but absolutely SHOULD not consider what they think when they say it. We need to refuse to allow them to take a great concept and make it any part of their agenda.

THAT is what I have been attempting to tell you. You seem to be allowing them to co-opt the idea for their purposes, and frankly, we should not let them do that. When we see what their signs say, we should think of what WE mean when such sentiments are voiced, realize that they are indeed attempting to redefine the idea to fit them, and utterly dismiss them.

AS SOON AS YOU START WORRYING ABOUT WHAT THEY MEAN WHEN THAT PHRASE IS USED, THEY WIN. Don't let them win. "Strong Families' belong to everybody, period.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
You keep harping on the idea that the white supremacists mean something different by 'strong families' than you and I do. I agree. They do. What I'm trying very hard to get through to you....and the point YOU AREN"T GETTING, is that this doesn't matter.

If they use 'strong families mean strong nations" in their propaganda, that DOES NOT MEAN that we need to worry about what they think when they say it. We not only do not, but absolutely SHOULD not consider what they think when they say it. We need to refuse to allow them to take a great concept and make it any part of their agenda.

THAT is what I have been attempting to tell you. You seem to be allowing them to co-opt the idea for their purposes, and frankly, we should not let them do that. When we see what their signs say, we should think of what WE mean when such sentiments are voiced, realize that they are indeed attempting to redefine the idea to fit them, and utterly dismiss them.

AS SOON AS YOU START WORRYING ABOUT WHAT THEY MEAN WHEN THAT PHRASE IS USED, THEY WIN. Don't let them win. "Strong Families' belong to everybody, period.
You really haven't been reading my posts at all, have you?
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
I read them. Evidently my exegesis isn't working, if what I'm reading isn't really what you are saying.
It really isn't. I have never once said or suggested that we should allow white supremacists to co-opt phrases, or that certain phrases should be or are intrinsically linked with white supremacy. My point has always been that what white supremacists mean when they talk about "strong families" is not the same thing you or I would mean when we talk about "strong families", and that these leaflets - when taken at face value - can lead people to believe that they DO share those values, when they don't.

That's the point. They're attempting to convince people that they share their values by hiding them behind generalized phrases. That's how propaganda like this works.
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
It really isn't. I have never once said or suggested that we should allow white supremacists to co-opt phrases, or that certain phrases should be or are intrinsically linked with white supremacy. My point has always been that what white supremacists mean when they talk about "strong families" is not the same thing you or I would mean when we talk about "strong families", and that these leaflets - when taken at face value - can lead people to believe that they DO share those values, when they don't.

That's the point. They're attempting to convince people that they share their values by hiding them behind generalized phrases. That's how propaganda like this works.

Then we agree on something. That IS what they are trying to do. It doesn't matter. We can't let them. So when we see a phrase like 'strong families,' we should go to what WE think about when we see the words, and not worry about what 'they' think. Just because they put the words on the leaflet doesn't mean that they own, or have any entitlement, to it.. What WE need to do, and as fairly intelligent people I think the vast majority of us actually do this...is figure, when they see the phrase, think 'that's nice. they're right about that.." and then, when they learn what the white supremacists think it means, throw the 'white supremacists' in the trash bin, and refuse to allow any link, in our minds, between 'strong families' and 'white supremacy."

I have been called a 'white supremacist' in HERE, because I had the nerve to disagree with some left wing proclamation. Anybody who knows me knows exactly how ludicrous that accusation is. I'm afraid, however, that it is becoming politically correct speech to label anybody to the right of Karl Marx as a 'white supremacist.' I have seen the most amazing people labeled that....some of 'em with skin shades like polished ebony, some with backgrounds from everybody BUT 'caucasians.'

(and that term is about as ironic as it can get, come to think of it, given who the 'true' caucasians actually are, and which included everybody from north africa and the middle east; you know, Arabs, Hebrews, Berbers and Egyptians...)

White supremacist = idiot.
 
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