Number one solution to obesity problem

[Thief]

Sugar is sugar. Both table sugar and high-fructose corn syrup are disaccharides containing both glucose and fructose, and broken down the same way by the body. It's going to be unhealthy if you add either in excess to foods. But because HFCS is so cheap, it gets added to more food in greater amount. But a similar amount of table sugar to hfcs is equally bad.
It's even bad in natural fruit sugars, but the fruit also contains fiber to slow sugar metabolism as well as other helpful nutrients. (Though those can be obtained elsewhere in lower glycemic foods.)

right on the mark

 

[Thief]

Move more, eat less.

there it is......yes

a Ted Talk speech made that quote repeatedly

and.....human fat breaks down into two items
carbon dioxide and water

raise your effort to need more air
raise your effort to the need of sweat

you lose your fat when you breath out
you lose your fat when you sweat

 

[lewisnotmiller]

All the above, really. Schools do need to offer better nutritional education (we just aren't taught how to eat right anymore), often times parents do need to be parents and tell their kids no, a shifting mentality that the best health care is preventative care, and of course there is the food industry which puts tons of garbage in food and turns food into "food," with a culture that accepts it with varying acceptance.

Talking about Australia here, but...
Schools do a lot of work talking about food and nutrition, as well as being quite strict (in many instances) around the sorts of food kids are allowed to bring for their lunches. Many schools also have small gardens, with my kid's school having chickens, and kitchen classes as well (public primary school in the suburbs of Melbourne).

But we have a lot of the same obesity issues as the US.

Part of it, I think, is around us telling kids, rather than modelling to them. That goes for parents and teachers.
Another part of it is the sugar levels in our diets. I think we should basically consider the average Australian as working under a 'sugar-habit'. Near as I can tell, America is even worse, which perhaps gives us a false sense of security.

 

[Anthem]

there it is......yes

a Ted Talk speech made that quote repeatedly

and.....human fat breaks down into two items
carbon dioxide and water

raise your effort to need more air
raise your effort to the need of sweat

you lose your fat when you breath out
you lose your fat when you sweat

There you just lose water.

 

[Nous]

Is this an America reference or outside of national boundaries?

Probably US doctors. I wouldn't be able to put my finger on the survey I'm referring to very quickly anyway.

Anyway, I'm glad you had minimal pain with your procedure. It sounds like it should have been very painful. My procedure was quite painful and I took the opioid prescribed. I have since learned that a prescription-size dose of ibuprofen is as effective as opioids. I have also discovered that it works best for me to take enough upfront to knock the pain out, and that lasts much longer than the recommended 4-6 hour dosing schedule. But my rare occasions of pains are quite short-lived.

A couple of studies have been published in recent years showing that opioids are no more effective than OTC analgesics. I've given these studies to 2 people I know who take opioids regularly, apparently for real pain, and who have both recently gotten into a constant struggle to obtain "enough". With both of these people I have discussed the findings of these studies in the most nonjudgmental way I know how. None of that made the slightest difference. They both have me long stories about how they need opioids.

 

[Nous]

Talking about Australia here, but...
Schools do a lot of work talking about food and nutrition, as well as being quite strict (in many instances) around the sorts of food kids are allowed to bring for their lunches. Many schools also have small gardens, with my kid's school having chickens, and kitchen classes as well (public primary school in the suburbs of Melbourne).

But we have a lot of the same obesity issues as the US.

Part of it, I think, is around us telling kids, rather than modelling to them. That goes for parents and teachers.
Another part of it is the sugar levels in our diets. I think we should basically consider the average Australian as working under a 'sugar-habit'. Near as I can tell, America is even worse, which perhaps gives us a false sense of security.

Interestingly just the other day I read that Australia would no longer be feeding animals in zoos the fruits that are sold in the marketplace, because these fruits have been bred to have such high levels of sugar that they're making the animals fat. Who would've thunk it?

 

[Shad]

Probably US doctors. I wouldn't be able to put my finger on the survey I'm referring to very quickly anyway.

Though so but I wanted to make sure.

Anyway, I'm glad you had minimal pain with your procedure. It sounds like it should have been very painful.

It was an assumption but based on what I do not know.

My procedure was quite painful and I took the opioid prescribed. I have since learned that a prescription-size dose of ibuprofen is as effective as opioids. I have also discovered that it works best for me to take enough upfront to knock the pain out, and that lasts much longer than the recommended 4-6 hour dosing schedule. But my rare occasions of pains are quite short-lived.

I have been using as an alternative too.

A couple of studies have been published in recent years showing that opioids are no more effective than OTC analgesics. I've given these studies to 2 people I know who take opioids regularly, apparently for real pain, and who have both recently gotten into a constant struggle to obtain "enough". With both of these people I have discussed the findings of these studies in the most nonjudgmental way I know how. None of that made the slightest difference. They both have me long stories about how they need opioids.

Seems like the addiction and it's pain talking not the origin pain or source.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Schools do a lot of work talking about food and nutrition, as well as being quite strict (in many instances) around the sorts of food kids are allowed to bring for their lunches. Many schools also have small gardens, with my kid's school having chickens, and kitchen classes as well (public primary school in the suburbs of Melbourne).

We have nothing like that here. Instead, what we have are people who complained and *****ed a fit when Michelle Obama encouraged healthier eating in schools. Never mind the fact that we the tax payers who furnish our children with these meals should expect quality meals. Restricting or banning soda machines and switching to whole grains is just too much, they say. They don't care. From Boomers on down, if a kid wants to stuff nothing but Twinkies and Ho-Hos into their mouths, Americans tend to go for what the kid wants instead of assuming the position of role model and guide. Never mind it's making us sick, unhealthy, and provides for a further tax burden to tax payers - let the kids guzzle Mountain Dew until it rots their teeth and pushes their waist beyond 40 inches.

Part of it, I think, is around us telling kids, rather than modelling to them. That goes for parents and teachers.
Another part of it is the sugar levels in our diets. I think we should basically consider the average Australian as working under a 'sugar-habit'. Near as I can tell, America is even worse, which perhaps gives us a false sense of security.

That's an issue here, as well. No one wants to model good eating.
It would also be interesting to compare sugar levels. Here, you have to be picky about everything or else you'll end up with tons of added sugars. Even a small cup of yogurt, something that should be healthy, becomes a nutritional wreck with almost 20 grams of added sugar. (Lobbyist here have paid well and fought hard to keep our nutritional labels in metrics as most Americans do not have a concept of how much a gram is).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I feel like people who say things like that haven't ever had to budget or go food shopping.

? I've have been there, on a very tight and strict budget for food.

Ingredients are plenty cheap and affordable even if you're poor as long as you're willing and able to cook 'em. No matter how cheap that frozen pizza or box of spaghetti is, I guarantee you that I can cook a pizza or spaghetti myself that's both better quality and that is cheaper to make.

Per serving, it's cheaper. But it cost more upfront to buy the flour, yeast, cheese, sauce, and so on. When you're poor, food is approached like pretty much everything else in that cheaper isn't better, but it's all you can afford at the moment. Cheap toilet paper goes fast, and cheap light bulbs burnout quickly. It may be cheaper in the long run to get higher quality light bulbs, but if at the moment all you can afford are cheapies that's all you can afford.
You can get a few spaghetti dinners for a couple bucks. A couple bucks won't even cover the cost of tomatoes to make your own.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

We have nothing like that here. Instead, what we have are people who complained and *****ed a fit when Michelle Obama encouraged healthier eating in schools. Never mind the fact that we the tax payers who furnish our children with these meals should expect quality meals. Restricting or banning soda machines and switching to whole grains is just too much, they say. They don't care. From Boomers on down, if a kid wants to stuff nothing but Twinkies and Ho-Hos into their mouths, Americans tend to go for what the kid wants instead of assuming the position of role model and guide. Never mind it's making us sick, unhealthy, and provides for a further tax burden to tax payers - let the kids guzzle Mountain Dew until it rots their teeth and pushes their waist beyond 40 inches.

That's an issue here, as well. No one wants to model good eating.
It would also be interesting to compare sugar levels. Here, you have to be picky about everything or else you'll end up with tons of added sugars. Even a small cup of yogurt, something that should be healthy, becomes a nutritional wreck with almost 20 grams of added sugar. (Lobbyist here have paid well and fought hard to keep our nutritional labels in metrics as most Americans do not have a concept of how much a gram is).

We have very similar issues here around labelling, or using 'hidden' words to describe sugar.
Food packaging has improved a little, but I was impressed when I went to Sweden that it was generally a little easier toake healthy choices.

(All the crap stuff was still available)

 

[Sanzbir]

You can get a few spaghetti dinners for a couple bucks. A couple bucks won't even cover the cost of tomatoes to make your own.

Well while I'm at the store, I might as well check some prices...

A 24 oz. can of pasta sauce runs $1.65. (Tomatoes come at ~$1 per pound if you'd rather do that instead, and makes your statement of "won't even cover the cost of tomatoes" laughable)
A 32 oz. pack of spaghetti noodles runs $2.42.
So in total the cost of self-made spaghetti: $4.07.

A single 10 oz. of the cheapest frozen spaghetti I can find in this store is $1.88. Since you use the terms "a few spaghetti dinners" in your example I will assume multiple spaghetti dinners are being bought for a family here in this scenario. Let's say a family of four.

So $7.52 can feed four people with your cheap frozen spaghetti dinners (with 10 oz. of spaghetti and 290 calories per serving).

The noodles and sauce will run you $4.07, and again assuming 10 oz. per person, you'll have 4 oz. of sauce and 12 oz. of noodles leftover.

If you want to bring it up to be comparable in the price range of the frozen crap, then you can furthermore buy a pound of ground beef for $2.88 to either make meatballs or meat sauce, bringing the total to $6.95 (still under the frozen crap) and yielding even more leftover ingredients,

Even if you are just feeding one person, you can go with the self-made option and eat leftovers for three additional meals. It won't be as much "variety" as the frozen garbage you'd apparently rather shove down your craw, but it'll be better for you.

I suggest one of the following four possibilities:
1. You've never actually done shopping,
2. You've never even considered the price of ingredients enough to look at their price tags and simply assumed they were less affordable,
3. You only checked the price of organic tomatoes, artisanal pastas, and lean ground beef, or
4. You are simply really bad at math.

Based on your stated ignorance on the subject, I maintain my original position on this thread: that simply educating people on shopping and cooking would be valuable in fighting obesity because apparently there are people out there like you who simply don't understand that the comparative cost of precooked garbage versus self-cooked meals is such that the better food is the more affordable.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

A 24 oz. can of pasta sauce runs $1.65. (Tomatoes come at ~$1 per pound if you'd rather do that instead, and makes your statement of "won't even cover the cost of tomatoes" laughable)
A 32 oz. pack of spaghetti noodles runs $2.42.
So in total the cost of self-made spaghetti: $4.07.

That's about twice of what I can find it for.
And, FYI, when you're poor, adding beef to the sauce is a luxury.

Based on your stated ignorance on the subject,

Did you miss the part when I said I've been there?

I suggest one of the following four possibilities:

1. You've never actually done shopping,
2. You've never even considered the price of ingredients enough to look at their price tags and simply assumed they were less affordable,
3. You only checked the price of organic tomatoes, artisanal pastas, and lean ground beef, or
4. You are simply really bad at math.

Or, 5. You're being an ***.

 

[Milton Platt]

We can crucify Ronald to start with.

Not as cheap as cheap food. Dollar frozen pizzas, boxes of spaghetti, and other carb-heavy and/or highly processed options are about it when you are poor.

Yep, when you survive college on Ramen noodles, you're already heading down the wrong path.

 

[Sanzbir]

That's about twice of what I can find it for.

All my posts used Walmart standard pricing. I did this anticipating your inevitable claim that you couldn't find it at the same price. So you have an answer now, go shop at Walmart and you'll get it for the price I quoted.

Plus, there's the fact that if your grocery has to up-charge those ingredients (if you live in an area with a high cost of living, for example), then they will also upcharge the frozen food, so even if the prices you claim you saw are twice as high, then the box of frozen spaghetti should also be twice as high.

But in case it's not, go to Walmart. Apparently the place you shop at is uniquely terrible. Walmart will always match their online prices.

And, FYI, when you're poor, adding beef to the sauce is a luxury.

Which is exactly why my initial calculation did not include it. My addition of meat was to demonstrate that even spaghetti with meat sauce was cheaper than your frozen crap without meat.

Did you miss the part when I said I've been there?

You can say whatever you want. The fact that you've no idea how grocery pricing works seems to indicate otherwise.

But I'll admit you might be right, you might be who you said you are, and you might simply have been sorely let down by your parents and the entire educational system when it comes to basic shopping knowledge. If that is the case, I apologize.

Because here's some proof, go to any Walmart and you can make 31 oz. of spaghetti for less than three dollars:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/6-Pack-Barilla-Pasta-Thin-Spaghetti-16oz/919805362
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Great-Value-Tomato-Sauce-15-oz/10415500

(every Walmart outside of Alaska or Hawai'i (for obvious reasons) will price match the online price if you bring it in, so even if you want to claim your local Walmart charges more, you can get the products above for the prices above at any Walmart)

Or, 5. You're being an ***.

Or you're some privileged upper class kid who assumes poor people are not smart enough to buy the cheaper, better food, and who is being an *** themselves.

I find your position frankly insulting. Even if you are not, you read like you're some privileged upper class person who has no idea what they're talking about and is talking down to poor people. Your implicit assertion that poor people are too stupid to figure out they can get fresh food to cook at Walmart for cheaper than the cheap frozen garbage is insulting, disgusting, and reeks of privilege.

I cook all my food for my family and shop at three different stores to get the best deals I can. My in-laws are on welfare and disability payments and still cook all their own food. Every working class person in my life cooks their own food rather than the frozen crap because it is cheaper to cook your own food. Every single one of them is smart enough to try to get the best deals they can. No one I know is the "to lazy to bother to shop properly" caricature of poor people you seem to think they are.

So when you come in here with your assertion that the frozen crap is the cheaper option, to me it comes off like a privileged upper class brat who has never actually been in a supermarket talking down to the rest of society.

And hey, maybe you aren't!! Maybe you actually have been grocery shopping in your life. But I have a really hard time squaring that idea away with all your statements that directly contradict reality. I have a really hard time understanding why you don't already take advantage of price-matching systems to get fresh food which is more affordable than the frozen crap. And I have a really hard time believing that a poor person would shop at a place that, according to you, charges nearly eight dollars for the ingredients spaghetti when you could get the ingredients from ~any~ Walmart for under $3!!

But, hey, I'll admit I could very well be wrong!! Maybe you just didn't know these things!! Which points to a huge societal problem if it is true.

If you are who you say you are, then seriously just go shop at Walmart as it will apparently change your life. Learn to shop smarter, because that "cheap" frozen food isn't really all that cheap. If you are who you say you are, then the fact you can't afford anything but frozen food is, frankly, your own choice by shopping at such an expensive retailer when cheaper options are available. Again, at any Walmart you can get this stuff for under $3. And 90% of all Americans live within 15 minutes of those things.

If you are who you say you are, again, I reiterate my original position: We need to teach people to shop and cook!! If you didn't actually know about these options available to you and everyone else, this is a serious problem indeed!!

And if you're not who you say you are, then please stop speaking down to the lower classes.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I did this anticipating your inevitable claim that you couldn't find it at the same price.

I claimed to find it at a cheaper price, which is true.

You can say whatever you want. The fact that you've no idea how grocery pricing works seems to indicate otherwise.

The fact is you're ignoring my own experiences of having to shop around for the absolute cheapest things I could find. If you can't accept the fact that boxes of mac 'n cheese are way more cheap and affordable than buying a box of noodles, cheese, and milk, it's not my problem but yours. If you've got a buck, you can buy a box of mac 'n cheese but you can't afford to make it from scratch.

But I'll admit you might be right, you might be who you said you are, and you might simply have been sorely let down by your parents and the entire educational system when it comes to basic shopping knowledge. If that is the case, I apologize.

How pretentious.

Or you're some privileged upper class kid

LMFAO! I've never been upper class, and I'm certainly not a kid.

 

[Craig Sedok]

What is the number one solution in your opinion?

Education by school? Cultural influece? Parent's responsibility? Health care? Food industry?[/QUOTE

The freedom of mankind. Genetics is related to desire of body to sustain. That fact says it all just needs to play out. Eventually there will be some weening Au natural. Number one solution.

 

[Thief]

There you just lose water.

no,no....

a human fat molecule is hydrogen, carbon and water
so said the guy doing the Ted Talk

get moving and the immediate sugar in your muscle will get used up
keep moving and the fat molecule begins to burn off
the spent chemistry is carbon dioxide
and water

after your exercise you will need more water
and the carbon fuel needs to be replaced

but not with sugar as food

avoid the refined stuff ...white table sugar and high fructose corn syrup

let you body work for the fuel breaking down other sources

a few ounces of meat
some low sugar veggies
as close to nature as you can get it

you would be amazed how little you eat and still remain strong

 

[Anthem]

no,no....

a human fat molecule is hydrogen, carbon and water
so said the guy doing the Ted Talk

get moving and the immediate sugar in your muscle will get used up
keep moving and the fat molecule begins to burn off
the spent chemistry is carbon dioxide
and water

after your exercise you will need more water
and the carbon fuel needs to be replaced

but not with sugar as food

avoid the refined stuff ...white table sugar and high fructose corn syrup

let you body work for the fuel breaking down other sources

a few ounces of meat
some low sugar veggies
as close to nature as you can get it

you would be amazed how little you eat and still remain strong

You make it all so complicated. When it comes to weight loss it matters none where you get your calories from. It's all about the amount.

Of course by evidence most people find it easier to lose weight in long term and to keep it off by changing what they eat. But they may just as well eat less of the same and the fat will come off.

 

[Thief]

You make it all so complicated. When it comes to weight loss it matters none where you get your calories from. It's all about the amount.

Of course by evidence most people find it easier to lose weight in long term and to keep it off by changing what they eat. But they may just as well eat less of the same and the fat will come off.

this past weekend i watched an explanation to the complexity

it wasn't simple

some items remain in your digestion for lengthy periods of time
they make you feel full
some items dissolve like they are made of sugar
and most likely are
you want more of the stuff much sooner

even if you carefully pick and choose what you will have to eat
most people still fail to see the difference

you need sugar.....no matter what
you can't move without it

HOW you get that required amount
and how LONG it takes for your digestion to process
is equally important

 

[Anthem]

this past weekend i watched an explanation to the complexity

it wasn't simple

some items remain in your digestion for lengthy periods of time
they make you feel full
some items dissolve like they are made of sugar
and most likely are
you want more of the stuff much sooner

even if you carefully pick and choose what you will have to eat
most people still fail to see the difference

you need sugar.....no matter what
you can't move without it

HOW you get that required amount
and how LONG it takes for your digestion to process
is equally important

Digestion to process?

Some foods have quick energy sure. People tend to go for them but the quick enetgy spike goes down soon- so it's better to eat those that give less of a spike but give energy for longer.

But I'm not sure what you mean by that how long it takes the digestion. It isn't really relevant. After all, you can drink nutrition just as well..