Nuclear Weapons- Who should have them and why?

[Saint Frankenstein]

You did not read what I actually wrote... did you? Not even one word....

And yet you feel it needful to make off-topic commentary?

Well, to be fair, your post didn't make much sense in the first place. I was just pointing out that it's illegal to do what your were describing, in case you didn't know. You seemed to be saying that just because the knowledge is out there, that anyone is free to build weapons of mass destruction. Maybe they can, but they'll be in jail for a long time due to it. I ignored the rest of your post since it went off into off-topic ranting about "religion".

And you need to stop using the laugh reaction to mock people's posts when they weren't being funny. I'll report you for it if you don't stop. I think you know it's against the rules.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Spoken like a true lord.

Indeed. So good of you to notice your inferior position -- it goes well with your inferior argumentative style. Devoid of facts, and all that.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Well, to be fair, your post didn't make much sense in the first place. I was just pointing out that it's illegal to do what your were describing, in case you didn't know. You seemed to be saying that just because the knowledge is out there, that anyone is free to build weapons of mass destruction. .

Projection, much? That's a nice Straw Man you built-- be a shame if someone knocked it down.

But. Knowledge IS out there -- that Ship has Sailed. You, pretending it hasn't is like sticking your head in the sand, and pretending everything is Peachy-Keen. When it's not.

If the knowledge IS available? Then anyone pretty much IS free, regardless of your ineffectual hand-waving.

Maybe they can, but they'll be in jail for a long time due to it. .

Really? How many people involved on the Manhattan Project are in jail? How many in Truman's Administration are in jail? Or, for that matter, how many in the USSR government were put in jail for building these things?

You seem to think there is some magic force putting folk into jail or something....?

I ignored the rest of your post since it went off into off-topic ranting about "religion"..

Oh! you DO think there is a Magic Force that puts people in "Jail".

So sorry for your loss...

And you need to stop using the laugh reaction to mock people's posts when they weren't being funny. I'll report you for it if you don't stop. I think you know it's against the rules.

But it was an HONEST reaction on my part! I really thought you were making a joke!

I actually laughed out loud... until it became obvious you were not joking.

Then I was sad for you... Magic isn't Real, you see...

 

[firedragon]

Indeed. So good of you to notice your inferior position -- it goes well with your inferior argumentative style. Devoid of facts, and all that.

Brother. If you think a person is inferior that's your personal thing. It's yours to keep. I didnt argue anything. Because I know that this matter for you is religious. There is no point at all in that discourse.

You win mate. All yours.
Peace.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Why is there mistrust between nations? We are all effectively human beings. Is mistrust to someone’s advantage say for instance arms dealers? These $trillion industries thrive and depend largely on mistrust and suspicion

In the end it’s us people who suffer. America spends $billions and $billions on arms yet it has no Medicare for all. Other countries have nukes at the expense of their population’s quality of life for if the monies were invested in life instead of destruction all would live comfortably.

How then to recreate trust between nations so that funds can be freed for us and our lives not an imaginary conflict?

My understanding is if world peace were established there would no longer be any need for these destructive weapons. But how shall it be established? The American Civil War is a good example of how a divided and disjointed nation with opposing sentiments became united albeit it took a conflict to eventually unite all.

On a world scale I think we are living out a similar situation but in this instance it is not the north vs the south but east and west.

It took a world war to get humanity to come together for the first time as the League of Nations and yet another Great War to bring about the UN so what is it going to take to establish a world community? It’s a huge bridge to cross and one that can only be resolved if the world comes together in a spirit of compassion and unity. There is no military solution. We have the ability to have world consultation but whether or not we use it or are forced into another war is the choice of all.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

It was still a legitimate military target. A base is different from a city, obviously..

So were the two cites.

I'm able to condemn both, you know. I condemn the atrocities of both the Allies and the Axis Powers.

Irony: You, sitting here in your Ivory Tower, enjoying the FRUITS of the Allies quashing the Axis Powers attempt to Rule The World.

And you belittle the method, looking back in Hindsight, as if YOU would have done better?

Wow. Hubris is the word you are looking for. And not a little hypocrisy.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Brother. If you think a person is inferior that's your personal thing. It's yours to keep. I didnt argue anything. Because I know that this matter for you is religious. There is no point at all in that discourse.

You win mate. All yours.
Peace.

I'm merely responding in kind to your ugly and non-factual retorts.

Have a nice day. I have no religion-- religion is always evil. You seem incapable of not projecting, here.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Projection, much? That's a nice Straw Man you built-- be a shame if someone knocked it down.

But. Knowledge IS out there -- that Ship has Sailed. You, pretending it hasn't is like sticking your head in the sand, and pretending everything is Peachy-Keen. When it's not.

If the knowledge IS available? Then anyone pretty much IS free, regardless of your ineffectual hand-waving.



Really? How many people involved on the Manhattan Project are in jail? How many in Truman's Administration are in jail? Or, for that matter, how many in the USSR government were put in jail for building these things?

You seem to think there is some magic force putting folk into jail or something....?


Oh! you DO think there is a Magic Force that puts people in "Jail".

So sorry for your loss...


But it was an HONEST reaction on my part! I really thought you were making a joke!

I actually laughed out loud... until it became obvious you were not joking.

Then I was sad for you... Magic isn't Real, you see...

You need to dump the nasty sarcastic attitude. It doesn't make me want to discuss anything with you. It'll make you end up on ignore.

You seem not to understand how the laws work. Just because the government gets to do something doesn't mean average civilians get to do it. Just because a soldier on the battlefield gets to use a tank doesn't mean he gets to keep a tank in his garage when he's at home. We're not allowed to have nukes, biological or chemical weapons as individuals. The "magic force" that will take you to jail is called the FBI.

Just because the information to do something is available online, doesn't mean that it's legal to do so. I think I'm being clear enough.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So were the two cites.



Irony: You, sitting here in your Ivory Tower, enjoying the FRUITS of the Allies quashing the Axis Powers attempt to Rule The World.

And you belittle the method, looking back in Hindsight, as if YOU would have done better?

Wow. Hubris is the word you are looking for. And not a little hypocrisy.

Hubris? I didn't realize the Allied governments were deities and deserve my reverence. I didn't realize you had such a dogmatic religion. It's not a religion I share, though. Yes, I criticize my government where they deserve it and I view the dropping of nukes on cities as atrocities. Unlike you, I do not have a double standard. It was wrong for the Japanese to kill civilians and it was wrong for the Americans to kill civilians. If it was wrong to target Pearl Harbor, it was wrong to target the Japanese cities. Why do you care more about Americans being killed than Japanese? It's just that the victors get to write history and brainwash the populace to excuse their misdeeds.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

You need to dump the nasty sarcastic attitude. It doesn't make me want to discuss anything with you. It'll make you end up on ignore..

I use sarcasm, because using factual arguments does not appear to make any dent...

You seem not to understand how the laws work. Just because the government gets to do something doesn't mean average civilians get to do it. .

Why is that? Is there some Magical Barrier at work? Or is it simply a matter of Might Makes Right?

Why should a Government have power that individuals do not? You seem quite okay with that disconnect...

Just because a soldier on the battlefield gets to use a tank doesn't mean he gets to keep a tank in his garage when he's at home. .

Really? I actually know of quite a few individuals who do have personal tanks... at home.

So you are wrong here, too...

We're not allowed to have nukes, biological or chemical weapons as individuals. The "magic force" that will take you to jail is called the FBI..

LOL! Riiight. Look how well that worked to curb tyrants like trump....

Just because the information to do something is available online, doesn't mean that it's legal to do so. I think I'm being clear enough.

There is "legal" and then? There is what's possible. The two are not remotely the same...

Something that seems quite beyond you.

 

[firedragon]

I'm merely responding in kind to your ugly and non-factual retorts.

Have a nice day. I have no religion-- religion is always evil. You seem incapable of not projecting, here.

Lol. Have a great day. Cheers.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I use sarcasm, because using factual arguments does not appear to make any dent...


Why is that? Is there some Magical Barrier at work? Or is it simply a matter of Might Makes Right?

Why should a Government have power that individuals do not? You seem quite okay with that disconnect...



Really? I actually know of quite a few individuals who do have personal tanks... at home.

So you are wrong here, too...


LOL! Riiight. Look how well that worked to curb tyrants like trump....


There is "legal" and then? There is what's possible. The two are not remotely the same...

Something that seems quite beyond you.

I'm talking about working tanks and the artillery to use with them. You can't have those.

You're just ranting about irrelevant stuff now. I guess you're some sort of anarchist who thinks everyone should be allowed to have their own nukes. Mind you, I don't even think governments should have them, in principle.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Hubris? I didn't realize the Allied governments were deities and deserve my reverence. I didn't realize you had such a dogmatic religion. It's not a religion I share, though. Yes, I criticize my government where they deserve it and I view the dropping of nukes on cities as atrocities. Unlike you, I do not have a double standard. It was wrong for the Japanese to kill civilians and it was wrong for the Americans to kill civilians. If it was wrong to target Pearl Harbor, it was wrong to target the Japanese cities. Why do you care more about Americans being killed than Japanese? It's just that the victors get to write history and brainwash the populace to excuse their misdeeds.

I have no religion: That's projection on your part. Common among theists-- if all you can think in is "magic" you paint everything you see with a brush of "religion".

War is hell. War is *always* hell. The quicker you can END HELL? The better for everyone.

The two nukes you so casually condemn? ENDED HELL MONTHS SHORTER.

Millions lives were SPARED as a result-- both on Japan and in the US military.

Using the nukes was far more humane than carpet-bombing using conventional ordnance.

You really have no clue...

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I'm talking about working tanks and the artillery to use with them. You can't have those..

Again? You are wrong. Ooops!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I have no religion: That's projection on your part. Common among theists-- if all you can think in is "magic" you paint everything you see with a brush of "religion".

War is hell. War is *always* hell. The quicker you can END HELL? The better for everyone.

The two nukes you so casually condemn? ENDED HELL MONTHS SHORTER.

Millions lives were SPARED as a result-- both on Japan and in the US military.

Using the nukes was far more humane than carpet-bombing using conventional ordnance.

You really have no clue...

You are an extremely rude person and basically trolling. You do not seem to be able to discuss things in civil manner, so I'm putting you on ignore. You can rant and rave with your propaganda supporting incinerating and giving radiation sickness to little children all you want, but I'm done. But if I see you misusing the funny rating with me again, I'll report you to the staff. So perhaps you should ignore me in return. Happy raving in support of bombing civilians. I no longer care what you have to say.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

You are an extremely rude person and basically trolling. You do not seem to be able to discuss things in civil manner, so I'm putting you on ignore. You can rant and rave with your propaganda supporting incinerating and giving radiation sickness to little children all you want, but I'm done. But if I see you misusing the funny rating with me again, I'll report you to the staff. So perhaps you should ignore me in return. Happy raving in support of bombing civilians. I no longer care what you have to say.

I accept your admission that you have no place to stand, and cannot present a single fact in support of your religion.

Hitch was right: Religion poisons everything.

 

[firedragon]

I accept your admission that you have no place to stand, and cannot present a single fact in support of your religion.

Hitch was right: Religion poisons everything.

Religion poisons every you say. Do you have evidence to that?

 

[Shad]

A tiny bit of good news.View attachment 33106

Your data is out of date. Russia far closer in number to America and ahead of it by a few.

Status of World Nuclear Forces

 

[Shad]

What does your faith or worldview say about nuclear weapons and disarmament?

Disarmament is just PR for the masses. No major power will give up all their weapons. They will just phase out the older equipment to be replaced with newer equipment while selling it as disarmament to the masses. Besides I see an increase in development from warheads to delivery systems as we colonize the solar system. Deploying large armies off-world will not be practical so long range weapons of massive power will fill the gap.

Should religion have anything to say at all?

Depends on who is saying it.

 

[Dawnofhope]

On February 26, 1945, the National Resistance Program made Japanese men 15 to 60 and women 17 to 40 subject to training for a projected final defense of the homeland if it was invaded.

Innocent?

Would it have been better to kill them with conventional weapons? The major reason the bomb was to avoid invading the home islands of Japan resulting in the loss of hundreds of thousands of Allied lives.

If there was a legitimate case for the use of nuclear weapons to save the lives of allied forces in 1945, why couldn’t the same argument be used to attack another sovereign nation today?