Nothing Exists

[swamplizard]

Hi Gjallarhorn,

It is definitely me, that I know without any reservation. However, I am not certain that it is you that posed the question or if it was me. But this I is being.

best,
swampy

 

[KovertKitty]

I never said it was. The thing we are experiencing (in this case good and evil) are subjective.

The experiences of 'Good' and 'Evil' aren't subjective... That is all objective... They are subjective when using them in a descriptive sense, but even still, that doesn't take away from what makes 'Good' and 'Evil'


"This fill in the blank is 'Good' or 'Evil'" is subjective in the strongest sense...

"I experience 'Good' or 'Evil'" cannot be considered subjective because we all do...

 

[Revoltingest]

"I experience 'Good' or 'Evil'" cannot be considered subjective because we all do...

Since we make up the definitions of good & evil, & we apply them with partisan favoritism, I'd say they're mostly subjective. We certainly don't agree about many such things.

 

[idav]

Since we make up the definitions of good & evil, & we apply them with partisan favoritism, I'd say they're mostly subjective. We certainly don't agree about many such things.

I think he is saying the experience is objective however throwing in those subjective labels certainly confuses the issue.

 

[Orias]

Nobody can be evil, evil doesn't exist, only things that are less happy than another, but even that is subjective. It seems that everything is subjective. There is an objective reality, but it seems that we are living in a dream, and that dream is subjectivity. Subjectivity is the house, objectivity is the world, and we're all living in the house.

Sight is even subjective. The colours we see are just part of the human eye view at the light spectrum, non-humans that can see beyond black and white probably see things in different colour, some may have similar sight, but still it isn't objective.

Emotion, good and evil, perspective, sight, sometimes sound, etc. It's all just in our mind, how our mind interprets it. Yes, there is an objective reality, but basically our subjective mind hides us from it.


I hate when people always talk about good and evil, how to make everyone happy... It's not going to work, the closest we can get is just not being unhappy, though even that isn't happiness, rather it is only possible by not having thoughts on things, equilibrium.

Good thread, but because everything is subjective, doesn't mean nothing exists, it just means the existence of such things are subject to the individual.

 

[Orias]

I think he is saying the experience is objective however throwing in those subjective labels certainly confuses the issue.

I agree, we all experience something that opposes our life force, and its either "good" or "bad" depending on the way in which people learn.

Surely, it is a highly subjective matter.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I do not disagree an objective world exists, but it does not hold the subjectivity that we hold in our mind is what I'm saying. Then again there is no proof in an objective world. I would say I'm agnostic of an official world that exists. I think it is likely that there is one.

What I'm saying is, this world, as we see it, feel it, hear it, smell it, etc. It does not exist, it is made up by our mind. Like wearing coloured glasses while looking at a tree.

 

[Orias]

I do not disagree an objective world exists, but it does not hold the subjectivity that we hold in our mind is what I'm saying. Then again there is no proof in an objective world. I would say I'm agnostic of an official world that exists. I think it is likely that there is one.

What I'm saying is, this world, as we see it, feel it, hear it, smell it, etc. It does not exist, it is made up by our mind. Like wearing coloured glasses while looking at a tree.

What you fail to see is that non-existence is simply that.

If something did not exist, then it would not be. The labels and words we use to describe the existence of such things is the subjective part, the objective part is what we experience through the five senses.

Labels, subjectively, exist in the moment just like everything else, until it is terminated of its existence.

We humans exist, until consciousness is no longer recognized, the same is with everything else, since everything else is merely a label used to describe perception, not necessarily unveiling what we perceive to be true, but more so comforting to the eyes.

I'm sure you've heard the quote, "That which pleases the eyes, brings joy to the heart".

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Can you prove humans exist?

 

[Orias]

Can you prove humans exist?

I can taste, smell, touch, hear, and see what we consider as "humans".

If your going to make such a blatantly rhetorical statement then you could at least attempt to prove that humans don't exist, otherwise it would just be One sided

 

[Willamena]

I find it simpler and less confusing to understand it this way: Everything is. We can, with our thoughts and with our words, pose things objectively or subjectively, but never-the-less, they are.

If there's nothing "outside" your mind, there can be nothing "inside" it either. There is only things.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I can taste, smell, touch, hear, and see what we consider as "humans".

If your going to make such a blatantly rhetorical statement then you could at least attempt to prove that humans don't exist, otherwise it would just be One sided

I didn't make the claim humans do not exist, you are on the burden of proof.

Just because you see, smell taste, touch, and hear, that we exist doesn't prove we are real, those are simply senses of the mind.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I find it simpler and less confusing to understand it this way: Everything is. We can, with our thoughts and with our words, pose things objectively or subjectively, but never-the-less, they are.

If there's nothing "outside" your mind, there can be nothing "inside" it either. There is only things.

Agree with the idea that there is nothing outside or inside our mind.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Nothing and everything can be the same.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I find it simpler and less confusing to understand it this way: Everything is. We can, with our thoughts and with our words, pose things objectively or subjectively, but never-the-less, they are.

If there's nothing "outside" your mind, there can be nothing "inside" it either. There is only things.

In the words of Alan Watts, "This is it."

 

[Orias]

I didn't make the claim humans do not exist, you are on the burden of proof.

Just because you see, smell taste, touch, and hear, that we exist doesn't prove we are real, those are simply senses of the mind.

Ha, I never said you made the claim humans do not exist, I simply said if your going to state a rhetoric you should at least comply to the device.

And I am not so much on the burden of proof, since existence is viable to all living things, unless One is extremely delusional and falls prey to their own doubt.


I'm not disagreeing with you that the senses can be misleading, in fact I would agree that they are the most misleading thing known to Man, but they are only so when Man attempts to intervene and manipulate the senses of his fellowship. And nothing exists, I don't know if you realized the play on words, but by saying that nothing exists, your essentially saying that nothing does in fact exist.

Like all things, prove is subject to the puppet master, you and I.

But, since stars, the dust of the Earth, the moon, the clouds, trees and water are not sentient, they do not have the will to deceive our senses making them very real. The only One thing that makes us question such things is our own paranoia.

 

[Willamena]

Agree with the idea that there is nothing outside or inside our mind.

Then you agree with something the opposite of what I said.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Then you agree with something the opposite of what I said.

Which is?

 

[Willamena]

Which is?

Everything is.

 

[Orias]

Which is?

If there is nothing outside of the mind, there can be nothing inside of it either.

Perhaps the topic is a little confusing, but when you say "nothing exists", your saying that nothing does exist.

When you agreed with her that nothing is inside and outside the mind, you also agreed that something is inside and outside the mind, or essentially that everything is, which renders your "nothing exists" statement false.

Unless you meant to say, "Nothing does not exist". Part of being the puppet master and what Willamena is saying is that you have to know which strings you are pulling and the length of them, and exactly how powerful and decisive you direct your words to be.

If nothing exists (from my understanding of what you mean by it), then this conversation wouldn't be possible, since it simply is.

It's like when someone asks why we exist, the only reason One would go out of their way to entail a fantastical depiction of this event would to be to captivate an audience. I would simply just say, I am because I am, and I will because I Will.