Nothing Exists

[incited]

When it is realized that no such separation actually exists, the concept of 'mind' does not come into play. It is in this state that we realize our Oneness with Reality, and that we have never, even for one moment, been separated from it.

Imagine a wave on the ocean's surface, emerging out of the sea, and then returning to it. It is always part of the sea, and never for one second imagines itself a separate entity apart from the sea.

Interconnectedness. This is the Buddhist view. But not necessarily the right or correct answer. Obviously one of the better thought-out and more advanced of the the bases of reality...but not necessarily the real reality.

The entire argument isn't helpful. We're bound to our "subjective" reality As long as we're not omnipotent or omniscient.

An ant is an ant. The ant is limited by its aquarium. It doesn't help him that there's a redwood tree in the distance that's too large a scale for him to perceive or understand.

 

[Willamena]

Interconnectedness. This is the Buddhist view. But not necessarily the right or correct answer. Obviously one of the better thought-out and more advanced of the the bases of reality...but not necessarily the real reality.

The entire argument isn't helpful. We're bound to our "subjective" reality As long as we're not omnipotent or omniscient.

An ant is an ant. The ant is limited by its aquarium. It doesn't help him that there's a redwood tree in the distance that's too large a scale for him to perceive or understand.

The ant, living in its aquarium, is living in the real reality moreso than you, imagining that there's a red wood tree in the distance.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

We're bound to our "subjective" reality As long as we're not omnipotent or omniscient.

When the mind is still and free from the subject - object perception of reality, there is no 'I' present to divide the ONE reality into illusion of two, the perceiver and the perceived.

The truth or other of this teaching can't be realized by conceptual reasoning, only when the 'I' actually ceases to arise will the subject - object reality also cease to arise and divide the unity of absolute existence. This will naturally be the case at death of the body, but perhaps also realized when the mind can be stilled whilst the body is still alive.

 

[godnotgod]

Interconnectedness. This is the Buddhist view. But not necessarily the right or correct answer. Obviously one of the better thought-out and more advanced of the the bases of reality...but not necessarily the real reality.

Either everything is interconnected or not. The interconnectedness of all things can be demonstrated, so yes, it is the real reality.

The entire argument isn't helpful. We're bound to our "subjective" reality As long as we're not omnipotent or omniscient.

An ant is an ant. The ant is limited by its aquarium. It doesn't help him that there's a redwood tree in the distance that's too large a scale for him to perceive or understand.

ben d has addressed the question of subject/object quite adequately. "subjective" and "objective" are only in your head.

I would only add to the latter part of this post that the universe itself understands both the ant and the tree, and how they inter-are. One might say that the universe is "anting" and "treeing". It is also "people-ing".

 

[Thief]

Either everything is interconnected or not. The interconnectedness of all things can be demonstrated, so yes, it is the real reality.

ben d has addressed the question of subject/object quite adequately. "subjective" and "objective" are only in your head.

I would only add to the latter part of this post that the universe itself understands both the ant and the tree, and how they inter-are. One might say that the universe is "anting" and "treeing". It is also "people-ing".

I don't think we are connected.
Your thoughts are over there.
I'm over here.

 

[godnotgod]

I don't think we are connected.
Your thoughts are over there.
I'm over here.

...and yet we stand on the same ground, see the same Sun, breathe the same air, and are sustained by the same force, just as all the waves on the surface of the sea are sustained by the one sea, which connects all waves to one another. All waves are made of water; all humans are made from the same substance. Your thoughts are just so much froth on the sea's surface. Go deeper.

However, on the surface, our thoughts are now connected via the internet.

 

[Thief]

...and yet we stand on the same ground, see the same Sun, breathe the same air, and are sustained by the same force, just as all the waves on the surface of the sea are sustained by the one sea, which connects all waves to one another. All waves are made of water; all humans are made from the same substance. Your thoughts are just so much froth on the sea's surface. Go deeper.

However, on the surface, our thoughts are now connected via the internet.

And you immediate sense of being goes how far?
Line of sight?....earshot?....the length of your arm?

And 'you' will still be one with it all?...as you lay in your grave....rotting.

 

[waitasec]

And you immediate sense of being goes how far?
Line of sight?....earshot?....the length of your arm?

And 'you' will still be one with it all?...as you lay in your grave....rotting.

the truth ain't always pretty

 

[Ben Dhyan]

And 'you' will still be one with it all?...as you lay in your grave....rotting.

Hmmm, water finds its own level...

Common man thinks "I am the body"
Intelligent man thinks "I am a soul in this body"
The sage is at peace in the One that is All.

 

[godnotgod]

And you immediate sense of being goes how far?
Line of sight?....earshot?....the length of your arm?

"You are not just the drop in the ocean, you are the mighty ocean in the drop"
Rumi

And 'you' will still be one with it all?...as you lay in your grave....rotting.

Firstly, there is no 'you' that rots in any grave, and secondly, rotting in a grave (or on a sofa or on a what-not shelf) is equal and totally interconnected to everything and anything else in the universe. Rot is good. It is why what is not-rotting can be. It is an activity of the entire universe. In fact, it is an essential aspect of life.

Thief, in all your posts, you seem to exhibit a deathly terror of the grave, and it is around this terror that you have built your belief system of some 'next life' that will somehow overcome the grave. There is nothing to overcome. Death is not a finality, but a transformation. In fact, where is 'death' when living organisms are consuming the body, and where is 'life' when the living feed on that which is dead? I think the real answer to your liberation from such terror lies in total acceptance of what you think is 'death'. Once you do this, death will no longer be a concern for you.

 

[Thief]

the truth ain't always pretty

He was talking about being 'one' with all.

No true....not now...and possibly not later.

Best hope?.....standing up from your dead body...and moving onward with angels.

 

[Thief]

Did someone mention the Grave?
Eternal Darkness?

You can't get out of your body now.
Even thought 'you' think 'you' are in control.
'You' say as 'you' please and do likewise.
Sort of.....

But if you can't get out whenever you feel like it...
What makes you think you will when you die?

If you don't believe in life after death....fine.

And would indeed be a dreadful surprise if you fail to stand from your body.
Body into the box...box into the ground...

Isolation in a confined space.

'You' won't last long.

 

[waitasec]

He was talking about being 'one' with all.

No true....not now...and possibly not later.

Best hope?.....standing up from your dead body...and moving onward with angels.

if we were not one with all, how then can we relate with one another?

 

[Thief]

if we were not one with all, how then can we relate with one another?

Indeed!

And as soon as you stand from from dead body....

 

[godnotgod]

If you don't believe in life after death....fine.

Thief, can you answer my question: On which premise do you base your belief on that there exists a 'next life'?

 

[Thief]

Thief, can you answer my question: On which premise do you base your belief on that there exists a 'next life'?

I think I have been doing so sufficiently.
Are you still asking for evidence?

 

[godnotgod]

I think I have been doing so sufficiently.
Are you still asking for evidence?

Are you paying attention? You already asked that, and I responded to it. Do you know the difference between providing evidence for something you claim, and merely providing the premise upon which you base your belief? Of course I am not asking for evidence! No one has ever died and returned to tell us about a 'next life', so no evidence can be forthcoming. Just tell me, if you can, what you base your belief that a next life exists upon, that's all.

 

[Thief]

Are you paying attention? You already asked that, and I responded to it. Do you know the difference between providing evidence for something you claim, and merely providing the premise upon which you base your belief? Of course I am not asking for evidence! No one has ever died and returned to tell us about a 'next life', so no evidence can be forthcoming. Just tell me, if you can, what you base your belief that a next life exists upon, that's all.

So much for Christian faith.

But besides that, I favor the likelihood that many of the billions of people that will die in my life time might well survive that last breath.
I think it altogether unreasonable to say that all manner of life ends in dust.

Now if you're comfortable with the notion of becoming dust....and then nothing....

But then what more do you have to say?

 

[godnotgod]

So much for Christian faith.

Firewood, when burned, does not return to being firewood. Firewood is firewood; ash is ash.

But besides that, I favor the likelihood that many of the billions of people that will die in my life time might well survive that last breath.
I think it altogether unreasonable to say that all manner of life ends in dust.

Maybe 'Reason' has nothing to do with it at all. But then why do you suppose it reasonable that anyone dies at all? I think the problem here is that you see 'death' as a termination that can't possibly be final, when, in fact, it is no such thing, but rather a transformation from one state to another. That we want to go on after death is an egoic pursuit; an activity of perpetuation designed and maintained by the ego, which does everyhing possible to avoid being found out and dissolved, so that the authentic Self can come into play. One of the fantasies the ego produces is the idea of a heavenly reward for being 'good', while projecting its Shadow onto others who are 'bad' and 'deserve' punishment in a hell. This is simply the game of spiritual one-upsmanship the ego plays to gain more adulation for itself.

I am not saying that something does not survive death, but that something is not you. It is the universal consciousness that is looking through your eyes at this very moment, a consciousness that is unborn, and therefore, deathless.
*****

The Human Route

"Coming empty-handed,
going empty-handed -- that is human.
When you are born, where do you come from?
When you die, where do you go?
Life is like a floating cloud which appears.
Death is like a floating cloud which disappears.
The floating cloud itself originally does not exist.
Life and death, coming and going, are also like that.
But there is one thing which always remains clear.
It is pure and clear, not depending on life and death.
Then what is the one pure and clear thing?"

Zen Master Seung
*****

Now if you're comfortable with the notion of becoming dust....and then nothing....

But then what more do you have to say?

You're still not getting it: there is no YOU that is comfortable or uncomfortable with 'becoming' anything! When 'you' die, 'you' no longer exist, so you can no longer experience anything beyond your 'last breath', being dust, or rolling around in some forgotten grave. You're dead, as in 'ded'. Only consciousness survives, because it was already in place before you were born, just as the sea was already there before the wave came into being, and will be there after the wave dissolves back into the sea. Everything is "as it was in the Beginning, is Now, and Ever shall be, world without end, Amen", but that 'world without end' is none other than this very eternal Present Moment, not some pie in the sky, cotton candy 'heaven'.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

That is so well explained godnotgod, you have been graced with true understanding..

Luke 8:10 And He said, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is in parables, so that SEEING THEY MAY NOT SEE, AND HEARING THEY MAY NOT UNDERSTAND.