Nothing Exists

[The Sum of Awe]

Define evil.

This^

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Even if good and evil did in fact exist, on the grand scale, even if you do make it popular to where everyone knows every decision you make and judges you of it, the Sun will explode some day, all records of you and your works will be destroyed and everything you have done will never be seen again, does it really matter what you do then?

 

[Onkara]

The question is still based on the belief that you are separate to what you do and the universe you are in.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

The question is still based on the belief that you are separate to what you do and the universe you are in.

Actually I define it better as lack of belief in existence for it has no evidence

 

[Onkara]

Actually I define it better as lack of belief in existence for it has no evidence

You are the evidence you believe to lack.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

You are the evidence you lack.

How does one lack himself besides in meditation?

 

[Onkara]

How does one lack himself besides in meditation?

You can never lack your Self, so the lack of belief in evidence arises from not recognising you are the universe (the microcosm in the macrocosm if easier to grasp). Meditation removes the questions of the mind, giving way to the foundation of You (as being).

 

[The Sum of Awe]

You can never lack your Self, so the lack of belief in evidence arises from not recognising you are the universe (the microcosm in the macrocosm if easier to grasp). Meditation removes the questions of the mind, giving way to the foundation of You (as being).

There's too many flaws in existence, let alone there is no evidence that what we see and live in is actually real, but there are many things indicating that it isn't.

 

[Onkara]

I agree. All experience (seeing and living) is transitory and full of change. That is why it has the sense of not being actually real. However for any change to be, there has to be a witness, that witness is pure existence - endless being.

Like an onion we can keep pealing back the apparent layers of what we sense and do, but no matter where you are or what you do there is a change-less witness - being - existence.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I agree. All experience (seeing and living) is transitory and full of change. That is why it has the sense of not being actually real. However for any change to be, there has to be a witness, that witness is pure existence - endless being.

Like an onion we can keep pealing back the apparent layers of what we sense and do, but no matter where you are or what you do there is a change-less witness - being - existence.

Witness is probably nothing like what we are right now. Witness is purity, thus nonexistence.

 

[Onkara]

Yes. Thinking soils the purity of the witness If the witness is nonexistence, then existence is a thought?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Yes. Thinking soils the purity of the witness If the witness is nonexistence, then existence is a thought?

Possibly a thought, but thoughts too are just illusions, therefore we are not even that.

 

[Onkara]

Possibly a thought, but thoughts too are just illusions, therefore we are not even that.

So what are we, if you had to use words to describe us?

 

[ManTimeForgot]

Even if good and evil did in fact exist, on the grand scale, even if you do make it popular to where everyone knows every decision you make and judges you of it, the Sun will explode some day, all records of you and your works will be destroyed and everything you have done will never be seen again, does it really matter what you do then?

Yes, yes it does matter. Your conscious interaction with other humans influence the minds around you. So long as there exists an unbroken chain of influence your actions will always matter. Maybe humanity doesn't survive; though by the time the sun explodes billions of years in the future humanity had better have long since becomes transhumans and succeeded in vacating this universe for something more cushy, but humanity does not have to survive in order for you to matter. All humanity has to manage to do is interact with some other species that does persist in order for all things to ultimately have some effect.

Yes, your individual influence is the limit of x as x approaches zero as the number of generations progress onward into infinity. I wouldn't hazard to guess on whether or not life after death, post-death consciousness, or reincarnation is possible, but something tells me that even if such things are not possible now that some day with sufficient technology, understanding, and wherewithal that those could become possible.


I still think you overemphasize the value of subjectivity. Maybe there isn't a gold standard for morality. That doesn't mean that there cannot be a useful standard for judging harm done to society or benefit for society. Half the problem with terminology is that people cannot agree on what they mean. Does morality regard society, family, the individual? But if everyone agreed on a mutually beneficial and useful definition of morality, then you could indeed possess an objectively real (in as much as a reality in which we cannot interact directly with anything) principle for good and evil.

MTF

 

[KovertKitty]

I can't neccesarily agree with the statement that 'Evil' and 'Good' don't exist objectively... They must, being that everyone experiences it (outside of the whole 'my mind is the only thing I can know exists' perspective)... So the fact that all experience these things shows objective existence... I won't go so far as to say that all agree with the compositions of 'Good' and 'Evil', but you can't deny that they are both experienced and therefore esist to everyone...

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

Sounds like solipsism.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

So what are we, if you had to use words to describe us?

I'm not too sure what we are, but we may or may not have any physical form at all, and does any other form exist besides physical? Therefore I might as well say we are nonexistent, not there. There is no evidence of a world beyond the subjective, besides for just seeing it. It is hard to describe us at all, for we never know.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Yes, yes it does matter. Your conscious interaction with other humans influence the minds around you. So long as there exists an unbroken chain of influence your actions will always matter. Maybe humanity doesn't survive; though by the time the sun explodes billions of years in the future humanity had better have long since becomes transhumans and succeeded in vacating this universe for something more cushy, but humanity does not have to survive in order for you to matter. All humanity has to manage to do is interact with some other species that does persist in order for all things to ultimately have some effect.

Yes, your individual influence is the limit of x as x approaches zero as the number of generations progress onward into infinity. I wouldn't hazard to guess on whether or not life after death, post-death consciousness, or reincarnation is possible, but something tells me that even if such things are not possible now that some day with sufficient technology, understanding, and wherewithal that those could become possible.


I still think you overemphasize the value of subjectivity. Maybe there isn't a gold standard for morality. That doesn't mean that there cannot be a useful standard for judging harm done to society or benefit for society. Half the problem with terminology is that people cannot agree on what they mean. Does morality regard society, family, the individual? But if everyone agreed on a mutually beneficial and useful definition of morality, then you could indeed possess an objectively real (in as much as a reality in which we cannot interact directly with anything) principle for good and evil.

MTF

What is society compared to the universe? What is society once it all collapses and there are no records of it existing at all besides for simple atoms?

What we do each day harms something, we cannot avoid it. They are in fact so small sometimes that they do not matter to us. But really think about it, we are just that small compared to the solar system, or probably even smaller, and that is just the solar system, we're talking planets, billions of miles out there. Compared to the whole universe we are nothing but dust in the wind.

I agree we should try to avoid harming ourselves and others', but no matter what we end up harming them anyways, and I'm not generally speaking of harm, because harm too is subjective.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I can't neccesarily agree with the statement that 'Evil' and 'Good' don't exist objectively... They must, being that everyone experiences it (outside of the whole 'my mind is the only thing I can know exists' perspective)... So the fact that all experience these things shows objective existence... I won't go so far as to say that all agree with the compositions of 'Good' and 'Evil', but you can't deny that they are both experienced and therefore esist to everyone...

Yes we have experienced them, and will continue experiencing them, though this still does not make them objective. They vary, they are only of what one person thinks of them as. There is no objective evil or objective good, they are just opinions made by our personal perspective. The nuclear missile that America sent to Japan was good for some people: The Americans.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Sounds like solipsism.

Possibly.