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Featured Nothing but an Ego Trip!

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Evangelicalhumanist, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...

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    I was thinking about a pretty obvious question during recent arguments about creation and evolution, specifically: "Why?" Why would a deity need to create a universe in the first place?

    So of course, I asked Google (about as omniscient a thing as I am aware of). And I came across this:

    Why Did God Create the World?

    It turns out the entirety of creation, everything, seems to be because God felt himself to be so incredibly wonderful that he "created the world for his glory!" Or in other words, "God created us to know him and love him and show him."

    Is that all there is, we're here only because God's on an Ego Trip? Is that what religious thinkers believe?
     
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  2. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    The exact wording is.

    Revelations 4:11

    11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

    Created for his pleasure, not glory or ego or any of that nonsense. He created us to keep Him company in what was once a reality where God was alone, the only thing in existence. Which if you think about it make sense. It explains why we all have free will and different personalities/traits instead of just a humogenous blob of completely identical "yes" people.
     
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  3. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    The Eastern conception is different. For example:

    The first imagination in Vedanta is called the lahar [whim]; by the Sufis it is called guman [fancy]. This first imagination was the first urge in the beginningless beginning to know Itself. As soon as this urge appeared, the beginning of the beginning started — not of God, but of the whim which created this Nothing which was latent in God. It was the whim: “Who Am I?” That very moment, with the beginning of the whim, Nothing was produced, and instead of knowing Himself, God began knowing this Nothing...
     
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  4. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integralist
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    No, that is not what religious thinkers believe. What you quoted is not a "thinker" in my book. It's like that one friend's father who told me when I was 12 why God created the world. He was "lonely and wanted company".

    I don't consider these the thoughts of "religious thinkers". They are the thoughts of a child imaging God in the heavens above, like a type of a man. Being an adult physically does not mean your thinking about God is yet beyond that of a child's.
     
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  5. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...

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    Okay, you're willing to tell me that I'm wrong. Why not provide a little of what you think? What are the thoughts of you, presumably not "a child imaging God?"

    After all, surely the question remains: If there's a God, and if that God created the universe, then why?
     
    #5 Evangelicalhumanist, Aug 14, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
  6. beenherebeforeagain

    beenherebeforeagain Rogue Animist
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    Personally, I prefer to think that if there is a creator deity, it is a creative artist...maybe even a performance artist...

    Or, perhaps, a scientist, running a number of "simulations" or other experiments, testing variables under different conditions...

    No, the "needs admirers" or "is lonely" viewpoint, while possible, just doesn't do it for me intellectually, morally, aesthetically, emotionally, etc.
     
  7. steveb1

    steveb1 Member

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    As a panentheist (not a pantheist) I believe that God is real but is not a Creator or an intervener.

    Therefore God cannot be blamed or praised for the world's origins and its current and past conditions.

    The notion of a divine Creator is derived from the making of artifacts by human beings. We make some things; other things such as natural objects were not made by us; so we took the leap that some Maker like us made the non-human world.

    Why would a supreme being engage in creation? I have no idea - it wouldn't be from loneliness, and if it was from some idea to shed a bunch'o'love on myriad worlds, why does the world contain so much meaningless, futile suffering?
     
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  8. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    "I am that I am" did it and hasn't said why. Perhaps it is none of our business?
     
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  9. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    kinda difficult to say......I AM!

    without something to show for it

    I consider that pronouncement to be simultaneous with.....
    Let there be light!
     
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  10. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    and you know the Artist by His creation
     
  11. beenherebeforeagain

    beenherebeforeagain Rogue Animist
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    you know, people say that all the time, and in my experience, it's just not true.

    You might see some aspects of the artist from the art they create, but it's only a window, and maybe not all that clear of a window, of the artist...
     
  12. beenherebeforeagain

    beenherebeforeagain Rogue Animist
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    And, what would you know of the scientist from the experiments she/he creates?
     
  13. Thirza Fallen

    Thirza Fallen Crazy Cat Lady

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    It sure would make things easier. No more arguments, etc.
     
  14. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integralist
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    Why start with the premise that God is a human like creature that has motivations? That's the first hurdle to overcome before asking why about anything. Why assume God is an "entity"? Why assume God is like a human being? If we start by examining that, then questions about being and existence, and God by extension can get off the ground. Why assume an anthropomorphic God?
     
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  15. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    All we know about that is: "Your ways are not my ways".
     
  16. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integralist
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    I think we can figure out a lot of other reasons why humans anthropomorphize God than relying on a verse from the Bible, which is itself an anthropomorphism. While it's true language like that reinforces an anthropomorphic view, it's not the underlying reason why we as humans do this.

    Anthropomorphisms aren't that hard to understand. Whenever we encounter something that is beyond our grasp, we try to relate it to things we already are familiar with in order to bridge that gap between the known and the unknown. God in the Bible looks a whole lot like a human ruler, or head of the household, or warlord, or benevolent king, etc. The problem with this however is when we literalize that projection as that "unknown's" actual reality.

    What was originally a metaphor, a way to envision this transcendent reality in order to relate the human mind to it, through use like this becomes a definition, a doctrine, a theology, and so forth. It's the literalizing of a metaphor. It's mistaking the finger point at the the moon, with the moon itself, as Alan Watts put it.

    So understanding that is the starting point for moving beyond the mythic-literal understanding of God, and trying to make everything fit into that metaphor as if it were a definition of God. If we take such language about God as the actuality of God and analyze the fallacies of that, we are doing the same thing the mythic-literal believer does in mistaking the finger pointing at the moon with the moon itself.

    If we can't separate the two, then were are ourselves still stuck there, even as we criticize it. In other words, it's an invalid critique of what God is to the rest of humanity beyond literalizing anthropomorphisms. Of course God wasn't "lonely", or wanting to puff his ego up. That's what humans do. :)
     
    #16 Windwalker, Aug 15, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
  17. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    I see a comparison.....

    the abstract artist making image in everyway he does.....and he does it ….a lot
    and God creates images....likewise
     
  18. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Active Member

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    Which means that God has needs. If God has needs he is not complete.
     
  19. beenherebeforeagain

    beenherebeforeagain Rogue Animist
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    my question is, how can humans decide what--if God exists--He/She/It/Them is actually doing...

    You say you can tell the artist by his works, and in fact in the Bible texts, it uses the tree/fruit metaphor. But how can we tell between

    a lonely deity,

    a deity who seeks adoration from his inferior creations,

    a creative artist, or

    a scientist

    and of course, the last two categories will include lots of subdivisions...metaphorically dancing, sculpting, drawing, painting, acting, recording, and etc., for the artist

    and field observation, lab experiment, simulation on a computer, testing of samples, such as materials testing, and so on.

    Seeing what we do of the universe, I don't see any clear 'signature' for the presence of or nature of such a creator...but then, except in the broadest of metaphors, I don't see how any humans could see and comprehend the nature of such a creator deity.
     
  20. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    well gee.....all of this around you
    and you would argue......no Creator?

    well then...….all of this is an accident
    with no purpose
    only coincidental direction
    and it will all end in dust
    as if it never happened

    I say Spirit first
    creation as effect of the Cause

    science can explain some of it

    the rest ….you get to ask Him when you get there
    wherever it is you end up
     
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