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MdmSzdWhtGuy
Well-Known Member
Orichalcum said:
Because when other groups get made fun of, those other groups don't blow up night clubs and riot in the street on a massive scale. Kind of like how you don't tease a pit bull or a rattlesnake.
I am a (mostly) white male, living in the United States. Everyone in the world can make fun of me, and I can make fun of nobody. Black comedians say I can't dance, female comediens say I am a lousy _____________ insert comment of your choice, and so forth and so on. I have to laugh and say, yes, I am a terrible dancer, yes, I am lame and white and goofy, ha ha ha.
Islamists go absolutely bat$hit whenever any perceived insult or threat to Islam is made, and the world largely lets them get away with it. You explain to me why it is acceptable to insult a white man's perceived inability to dance, while it is unnacceptable to make a joke about a black man's perceived work ethic, and I will give you a detailed answer as to why one cannot parady Mohammed.
B.
Nehustan
Well-Known Member
I think I will have a go at your white man dancing vs black man working analogy...but will leave the comment on Muhammad for your critique.
I think that no one really doubts that white people can dance, it's just historically what they have danced to, and what is currently fashionable. If we take the music of the present day and not too distant past it basically has its roots in Blues (i.e the blues scale, pentatonic, I/IV/V for a skeleton chordal stucture). Rock and Roll was originally Black Music (although it took Elvis etc., to break it through to the mainstream), R&B has the same roots, Soul, Hip Hop, Disco, even Jazz to an extent. That most hillbilly of instruments the banjo was imported with the slaves (tho not exactly as we have it today) and was primarily a plantation instrument. So its not that white men can't dance (they do great in lines in Texas I bet, and quite prone to a jig in Galway) its that they often find the 'soul' of current music a little hard to grasp when they first hear it. But there's hope...after all country and western very much has the blues as part of its roots, and look at how that has taken off, tho' admittedly it took said white folks a while to work out what they were going to do.
Now the black persons work ethic 'problem'....well let's just say this may also have something to do with plantations, i.e. the subtext which says 'These black people worked a whole lot harder when they lived on plantations'
I think that no one really doubts that white people can dance, it's just historically what they have danced to, and what is currently fashionable. If we take the music of the present day and not too distant past it basically has its roots in Blues (i.e the blues scale, pentatonic, I/IV/V for a skeleton chordal stucture). Rock and Roll was originally Black Music (although it took Elvis etc., to break it through to the mainstream), R&B has the same roots, Soul, Hip Hop, Disco, even Jazz to an extent. That most hillbilly of instruments the banjo was imported with the slaves (tho not exactly as we have it today) and was primarily a plantation instrument. So its not that white men can't dance (they do great in lines in Texas I bet, and quite prone to a jig in Galway) its that they often find the 'soul' of current music a little hard to grasp when they first hear it. But there's hope...after all country and western very much has the blues as part of its roots, and look at how that has taken off, tho' admittedly it took said white folks a while to work out what they were going to do.
Now the black persons work ethic 'problem'....well let's just say this may also have something to do with plantations, i.e. the subtext which says 'These black people worked a whole lot harder when they lived on plantations'
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
This is off-topic, but you forget that most dance music, at least in this country, that is considered to be the "quintessential" white-boy dance music, is big-band jazz, also based on the I, IV, V (actually, it's more correctly a ii, V7, I progreession) of the Black jazz of St. Louis and Chicago. Closer to actual old-school blues than the current hip-hop trend! The difference you cite here is actually probably due more to the roots of dance than music: influence of ancient, African tribal dance, as opposed to the influence of European, ballroom dance. Rock on!Nehustan said:
Many Muslims are taught that theirs is the true religion; that they are a great people, virtuous and favored of God. They know the Islamic world was once the richest, most powerful, most progressive society on Earth. They also hear that that western society is ungodly, corrupt, undisciplined and reprobate.
But when they compare the two societies, they see that westerners, openly flouting every standard of decency and propriety, are living rich, affluent and carefree lives, whereas their own, godly societies are poor, impotent and strife torn. Indeed, they are dominated by these godless western infidels.
This, understandably, makes many Muslims rather thin-skinned and resentful.
But when they compare the two societies, they see that westerners, openly flouting every standard of decency and propriety, are living rich, affluent and carefree lives, whereas their own, godly societies are poor, impotent and strife torn. Indeed, they are dominated by these godless western infidels.
This, understandably, makes many Muslims rather thin-skinned and resentful.
PureX
Veteran Member
I think that whole business about the cartoons and the enraged Muslims is a lesson to us all about the dangers of ideological absolutism. Christian absolutists are no less outraged by ANY negative representations of them. And political absolutists are no different.
The bottom line is that ideological absolutists can't tolerate any form of opposition. And will very often resort to violence when confronted with it. We need to remember this.
The bottom line is that ideological absolutists can't tolerate any form of opposition. And will very often resort to violence when confronted with it. We need to remember this.
There is a problem in understanding the way Muslims see their religion.
For instance, with other religions you can see that they have their own faith but they only mind their business and they go to practice if they want "for religious people" but for most of the faith followers, they may remember their religion once a week when they practice it then they can forget about it the rest of the week and even to have fun of it thinking that they have a sense of humor. For muslims, Islam is a system of life and it interfer in their whole life everyday. Nevertheless, there is separation in other faiths between what you believe in and how you live. For most of Muslims, Islam will be there everyday in everything in their life and they respect it. That's can't justify what some misguided muslims might to do to defend their faith but at least you can understand why they are doing so.
We can't forget "especially for muslims in the middle east" that they see USA as the ultimate evil on earth because of afghanistan, iraq and their fully blindly support for Israel along with Britain against palestinians. These factors might affect their mind as well to think that people are having fun of them because they have no respect for them and for their faith.
Remember that, sometimes there are things which is ok for some faiths to do it but they don't allow muslims to do it and vice versa which will make them feel as they have been descrimenated.
Just my opnion ..
For instance, with other religions you can see that they have their own faith but they only mind their business and they go to practice if they want "for religious people" but for most of the faith followers, they may remember their religion once a week when they practice it then they can forget about it the rest of the week and even to have fun of it thinking that they have a sense of humor. For muslims, Islam is a system of life and it interfer in their whole life everyday. Nevertheless, there is separation in other faiths between what you believe in and how you live. For most of Muslims, Islam will be there everyday in everything in their life and they respect it. That's can't justify what some misguided muslims might to do to defend their faith but at least you can understand why they are doing so.
We can't forget "especially for muslims in the middle east" that they see USA as the ultimate evil on earth because of afghanistan, iraq and their fully blindly support for Israel along with Britain against palestinians. These factors might affect their mind as well to think that people are having fun of them because they have no respect for them and for their faith.
Remember that, sometimes there are things which is ok for some faiths to do it but they don't allow muslims to do it and vice versa which will make them feel as they have been descrimenated.
Just my opnion ..
Ãsahættr
Active Member
I think it's a terrible shame that it was those cartoons that have become the fighting ground over this matter. I don't know what other supporters of free speech over religious insensitivities think, but I personally do not want to have to defend these rather pathetic exercises in free speech. There have been so many great criticisms, parodies and satire done of religion, yet the biggest challenge to free speech in our time has come against some cartoons containing such great works of satire as Muhammed with a bomb in his turban.
Occupying the position that I do, and that I expect many others do, is quite difficult. When you say that no, you don't think that the cartoons should have been censored, then a lot of Muslims assume that you agree with the content, and just want as much criticism and offense to their religion as possible, and when you say that you think that the cartoons should be unofficially censored, in that most right-thinking people should condemn the suggestion that all Muslims are terrorists, you are turned on by fellow defenders of free speech complaining that you've weakly given in to religious pressure.
Occupying the position that I do, and that I expect many others do, is quite difficult. When you say that no, you don't think that the cartoons should have been censored, then a lot of Muslims assume that you agree with the content, and just want as much criticism and offense to their religion as possible, and when you say that you think that the cartoons should be unofficially censored, in that most right-thinking people should condemn the suggestion that all Muslims are terrorists, you are turned on by fellow defenders of free speech complaining that you've weakly given in to religious pressure.
MdmSzdWhtGuy
Well-Known Member
Any Muslims want to chime in on this topic?
B.
B.
DakotaGypsy
Active Member
I don't know that it is acceptable to parody and make fun of Christ. I've never seen any evidence of such parodying, etc.
Ãsahættr
Active Member
DakotaGypsy said:
Never seen the Life of Brian?
Ãsahættr
Active Member
sojourner said:
It may not be making fun of Christ, but Brian is a parody of Christ.
Ãsahættr
Active Member
sojourner said:
You don't need to recite what the Pythons said whenever they were challenged. Brian is a symbol of human idolatry, and a parody of Christ.
Oh yes, Jerry Springer the Opera. That's another good example.
As Seyorni says, aspects of Christianity have been parodied plenty of times.
Orichalcum said:
Because people like attacking people who turn their cheeks and do not fight back.
Most people in the west have got used to mocking Jesus and Christians. Usually they do not get hacked to death in the streets or dragged out into the streets and drenched in petrol and burnt to death. The doctrine of Christianity is to not resist and to leave the revenge up to God.
But islam is very different indeed. A true muslum will kill the person who has insulted islam. This is something that western people are learning very quickly. Most "comedians" "artists" and "authors" are only "brave" when it comes to mocking and insulting Christians, who they know will not take out vengeance for God, but will wait for God to take vengeance for them.
But when it comes to insulting muslims their "bravery" dissipates into thin air. They know that a true muslim will stop at nothing to kill them for daring to insult allah or muhammad.
That is why islam is exempt from parody and satire. A combination of the determination of muslims not to put up with parody and satire and the cowardice of scumbags who only parody and satire things that do not bite back.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days