Not only does god allow suffering, but he allows cures for said suffering. That's a contradiction!

[The Transcended Omniverse]

God, and these heavenly beings, have the power to instantly heal humanity of their physical and mental suffering, regardless if it's a form of suffering that's the fault of the individual suffering, or suffering that's been inflicted by an external situation out of the person's control, such as developing cancer.

But, they don't heal humanity of their suffering, and many spiritual believers think it's for our personal learning and growth. So, they think god, and these heavenly beings, allow suffering for a very good reason. But, if they're allowing it for a very good reason, then why would they allow cures to be discovered for said suffering?

It seems to me they don't care about humanity, and they allow anything to happen. They don't intervene, and they just allow life to play out. So, it seems they don't allow suffering for any good reason. They allow it because they just don't care what happens one way or the other.

Also, in the future, it's possible all forms of suffering and illness would be cured. That would leave virtually no room for personal growth for our souls, since we grow through suffering. Spiritual believers say our souls are here to undergo suffering for the purpose of learning and growing. But, if that's so, then god, and these heavenly beings, allowing cures to be discovered, would defeat that purpose.

So, it seems to me we're not here for any grand purpose. We're just here, and we're allowed to go through anything, whether it be immense suffering, the curing of our suffering, being able to pursue our goals and dreams, or someone not being able to pursue her goal and dream of being a singer, since an unfortunate event happened to her, such as her permanently losing her voice.

By the way, it seems god, and these heavenly beings, don't even care about our talents, goals, and dreams because, if a talented singer permanently lost her voice, then they wouldn't heal her voice. But, I bet there'd be something in the future that would cure a permanently lost voice. In which case, it wouldn't be a permanently lost voice.

So, given there'd be a cure for this, it seems people are allowed to permanently lose their voice for no good reason either. It's allowed to happen because god just doesn't care. Also, if any given amazing talent was a gift from god, then why would he allow an amazing singer to permanently lose her voice? Wouldn't god be ensuring that she can pursue her talent?

Lastly, there are claims out there of spiritual healers, who are people who can heal others of their physical and mental ailments. But, the existence of these spiritual healers would contradict this whole idea that humans are allowed to go through suffering and illness for a very good reason. If it can all just be completely healed, then that defeats the whole purpose of learning and growing through suffering and illness.

 

[Road Less Traveled]

God, and these heavenly beings, have the power to instantly heal humanity of their physical and mental suffering, regardless if it's a form of suffering that's the fault of the individual suffering, or suffering that's been inflicted by an external situation out of the person's control, such as developing cancer.

But, they don't heal humanity of their suffering, and many spiritual believers think it's for our personal learning and growth. So, they think god, and these heavenly beings, allow suffering for a very good reason. But, if they're allowing it for a very good reason, then why would they allow cures to be discovered for said suffering?

It seems to me they don't care about humanity, and they allow anything to happen. They don't intervene, and they just allow life to play out. So, it seems they don't allow suffering for any good reason. They allow it because they just don't care what happens one way or the other.

Also, in the future, it's possible all forms of suffering and illness would be cured. That would leave virtually no room for personal growth for our souls, since we grow through suffering. Spiritual believers say our souls are here to undergo suffering for the purpose of learning and growing. But, if that's so, then god, and these heavenly beings, allowing cures to be discovered, would defeat that purpose.

So, it seems to me we're not here for any grand purpose. We're just here, and we're allowed to go through anything, whether it be immense suffering, the curing of our suffering, being able to pursue our goals and dreams, or someone not being able to pursue her goal and dream of being a singer, since an unfortunate event happened to her, such as her permanently losing her voice.

By the way, it seems god, and these heavenly beings, don't even care about our talents, goals, and dreams because, if a talented singer permanently lost her voice, then they wouldn't heal her voice. But, I bet there'd be something in the future that would cure a permanently lost voice. In which case, it wouldn't be a permanently lost voice.

So, given there'd be a cure for this, it seems people are allowed to permanently lose their voice for no good reason either. It's allowed to happen because god just doesn't care. Also, if any given amazing talent was a gift from god, then why would he allow an amazing singer to permanently lose her voice? Wouldn't god be ensuring that she can pursue her talent?

Lastly, there are claims out there of spiritual healers, who are people who can heal others of their physical and mental ailments. But, the existence of these spiritual healers would contradict this whole idea that humans are allowed to go through suffering and illness for a very good reason. If it can all just be completely healed, then that defeats the whole purpose of learning and growing through suffering and illness.

Anything that is both the author of suffering and disease, while also being the cure and healing would be something demented, sadistic, narcissistic, and psychopathic. Having some disturbing hero-complex. Disturbing, but I believe that a lot of this is going on in this world. I know exactly how I would do it if I were evil with bad intent. And some of the greatest errors that I’ve made or most make is assuming that everyone has good intent, or have the same kind of moral compass as most do. Trusting in certain others and things that we assume have our best interest at heart.

The only thing I would find sensible would be there being multiple sources. One source authoring up suffering and disease while another source is trying to or bringing the awareness to cause and reason and also the knowledge, and wisdom for healing or minimizing the pain and suffering.

 

[Wasp]

In Islam suffering erases sins and also raises the level the person deserves in Jannah - if they deserve a place.

Secondly only God can cause and allow anything. There is no "other heavenly beings" capable of that by themselves.

 

[Road Less Traveled]

In Islam suffering erases sins and also raises the level the person deserves in Jannah - if they deserve a place.

Secondly only God can cause and allow anything. There is no "other heavenly beings" capable of that by themselves.

These doctrines have caused a lot of humans to deliberately cause unnecessary suffering and human flagellation under the guise of ‘having better and more rewards.’ Under these doctrines if they were true... someone should go around causing as much suffering as they can to others and themselves since there would be better rewards.

You would trust in something that diseased you and then offered you the cure?

 

[Wasp]

These doctrines have caused a lot of humans to deliberately cause unnecessary suffering and human flagellation under the guise of ‘having better and more rewards.’

Who?

 

[Road Less Traveled]

Also, if any given amazing talent was a gift from god, then why would he allow an amazing singer to permanently lose her voice? Wouldn't god be ensuring that she can pursue her talent?

This is in my perception, but may not be for others: If I had a talented voice, I’d want to stay as far away from fame, fortune, stardom, being idolized, and all of that other stuff that came with it. I’d instead, keep a low profile. And if there were something good that knew that the avenue would lead to fame, fortune, stardom, being idolized, and all of that other stuff that came with it... perhaps it would be a blessing to lose that voice.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

This is in my perception, but may not be for others: If I had a talented voice, I’d want to stay as far away from fame, fortune, stardom, being idolized, and all of that other stuff that came with it. I’d instead, keep a low profile. And if there were something good that knew that the avenue would lead to fame, fortune, stardom, being idolized, and all of that other stuff that came with it... perhaps it would be a blessing to lose that voice.

But, what about a talented singer who doesn't want to sing for any fame, fortune, etc., and would never enter into fame, fortune, etc.? If she just wishes to sing privately because she likes to do it as a hobby, and finds it profoundly beautiful, then it would be a blessing for god to restore her voice if she permanently lost it. As a side note, few people enter into fame, fortune, etc.

 

[screwyupsidedown19]

I have to admit I didn’t read the whole post as it was kind of long. But I’m generally of the sentiment go through the ringer for 70 years with all sorts of suffering just to prove you’re worthy of God (or longer in my case) and it tastes like a load of crap. What about bubonic plague folks - they got out early and quick, doesn’t seem fair?

 

[Jainarayan]

What makes y’all think God is responsible for suffering and evil, and why it’s His job to heal, coddle and namby-pamby everyone and everything? Where does that belief come from? I submit that it’s just human attempt to explain things we have no control over, the need to blame someone or something. Consider the Hindu take on it: Problem of evil in Hinduism - Wikipedia Buddhism is not much different.

 

[Road Less Traveled]

But, what about a talented singer who doesn't want to sing for any fame, fortune, etc., and would never enter into fame, fortune, etc.? If she just wishes to sing privately because she likes to do it as a hobby, then it would be a blessing for god to restore her voice if she permanently lost it. As a side note, few people enter into fame, fortune, etc.

If there were a god that caused someone to lose their voice, or just a random, fluke of an occurrence as the cause... then I suppose that I would just have find contentment and peace with it, or wait until the knowledge is brought, discovered if ever for a cure.

 

[Road Less Traveled]

What makes y’all think God is responsible for suffering and evil, and why it’s His job to heal, coddle and namby-pamby everyone and everything? Where does that belief come from? I submit that it’s just human attempt to explain things we have no control over, the need to blame someone or something. Consider the Hindu take on it: Problem of evil in Hinduism - Wikipedia Buddhism is not much different.

Laws of particular karma would be absurd in my perception. Just another tool to blame and guilt humans for everything. Also, anyone who knows human nature and the psyche know that one of the greatest tools to manipulate and control humans is through making them feel indebted and like they owe something. Through blame and guilt trips, fear. Whatever else.

There are people who legitimately blame themselves for being raped and that they must experience and suffer the rape due to their karmic balance, or raping someone in a prior life.

That is disturbing for many reasons, the most being that God or the universe must write up a rapist to get revenge and fulfill a former raper’s karmic balance at a later time. The sick thing is, is that wouldn’t even surprise me if there is something that demented that has demented laws and would make something like this happen.

Most people carry out their lives just fine without ever having the nature or ability in them to ever rape anyone even if they can choose to. Wouldn’t have been too hard to just make that a standard nature for everyone.

 

[SugarOcean]

I would contend it is not a contradiction in the least.
An all knowing God, omniscient God, knows the fallen nature of humanity will include self-destructive behaviors that lead to suffering. That knowledge would also include humanity contracting diseases, like cancer.
The Creator insured a means of healing so as to address those maladies. Inspiring minds to invent medicinal remedies after Creator gave us plants and herbs for healing naturally.
Christian Scientists don't believe in physician assistance. They think prayer will solve all their ills. But what if God created science and doctors so that those would serve as an answer to those prayers.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

What makes y’all think God is responsible for suffering and evil, and why it’s His job to heal, coddle and namby-pamby everyone and everything? Where does that belief come from? I submit that it’s just human attempt to explain things we have no control over, the need to blame someone or something. Consider the Hindu take on it: Problem of evil in Hinduism - Wikipedia Buddhism is not much different.

Again, if that's the reason why he allows suffering, then why does he allow cures for suffering? A future utopia life, where all suffering has been eliminated through cures, contradicts this purpose of suffering you put forth.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I would contend it is not a contradiction in the least.
An all knowing God, omniscient God, knows the fallen nature of humanity will include self-destructive behaviors that lead to suffering. That knowledge would also include humanity contracting diseases, like cancer.
The Creator insured a means of healing so as to address those maladies. Inspiring minds to invent medicinal remedies after Creator gave us plants and herbs for healing naturally.
Christian Scientists don't believe in physician assistance. They think prayer will solve all their ills. But what if God created science and doctors so that those would serve as an answer to those prayers.

There's no need for all of that when god is all powerful, and can instantly heal all suffering people in need of healing in the blink of an eye.

 

[Road Less Traveled]

What makes y’all think God is responsible for suffering and evil, and why it’s His job to heal, coddle and namby-pamby everyone and everything? Where does that belief come from? I submit that it’s just human attempt to explain things we have no control over, the need to blame someone or something. Consider the Hindu take on it: Problem of evil in Hinduism - Wikipedia Buddhism is not much different.

From that wiki link:

“for example, in Uttara Mīmāṃsā Sutras Book 2 Chapter 1;[22][23] the 8th century arguments by Adi Sankara in Brahmasutrabhasya where he posits that God cannot reasonably be the cause of the world because there exists moral evil, inequality, cruelty and suffering in the world;[24][25] and the 11th century theodicy discussion by Ramanuja in Sribhasya.[26]”

The solution would be that if there were a wholly good god that it did not create this world/universe. And would very limited and not powerful enough or yet powerful enough in ability to be able to stop or prevent or cure. And at the minimum... did not create or author the nasty and vile stuff. Something else would have had to.

 

[leov]

God, and these heavenly beings, have the power to instantly heal humanity of their physical and mental suffering, regardless if it's a form of suffering that's the fault of the individual suffering, or suffering that's been inflicted by an external situation out of the person's control, such as developing cancer.

But, they don't heal humanity of their suffering, and many spiritual believers think it's for our personal learning and growth. So, they think god, and these heavenly beings, allow suffering for a very good reason. But, if they're allowing it for a very good reason, then why would they allow cures to be discovered for said suffering?

It seems to me they don't care about humanity, and they allow anything to happen. They don't intervene, and they just allow life to play out. So, it seems they don't allow suffering for any good reason. They allow it because they just don't care what happens one way or the other.

Also, in the future, it's possible all forms of suffering and illness would be cured. That would leave virtually no room for personal growth for our souls, since we grow through suffering. Spiritual believers say our souls are here to undergo suffering for the purpose of learning and growing. But, if that's so, then god, and these heavenly beings, allowing cures to be discovered, would defeat that purpose.

So, it seems to me we're not here for any grand purpose. We're just here, and we're allowed to go through anything, whether it be immense suffering, the curing of our suffering, being able to pursue our goals and dreams, or someone not being able to pursue her goal and dream of being a singer, since an unfortunate event happened to her, such as her permanently losing her voice.

By the way, it seems god, and these heavenly beings, don't even care about our talents, goals, and dreams because, if a talented singer permanently lost her voice, then they wouldn't heal her voice. But, I bet there'd be something in the future that would cure a permanently lost voice. In which case, it wouldn't be a permanently lost voice.

So, given there'd be a cure for this, it seems people are allowed to permanently lose their voice for no good reason either. It's allowed to happen because god just doesn't care. Also, if any given amazing talent was a gift from god, then why would he allow an amazing singer to permanently lose her voice? Wouldn't god be ensuring that she can pursue her talent?

Lastly, there are claims out there of spiritual healers, who are people who can heal others of their physical and mental ailments. But, the existence of these spiritual healers would contradict this whole idea that humans are allowed to go through suffering and illness for a very good reason. If it can all just be completely healed, then that defeats the whole purpose of learning and growing through suffering and illness.

Suffering is a part of Natural Law. We are capable to remedy a lot of suffering and that is what expected. Physical body is not our real home, in our real home there is no physical suffering. If learn to care above our egos this physical world is not needed any longer.

 

[screwyupsidedown19]

There's no need for all of that when god is all powerful, and can instantly heal all suffering people in need of healing in the blink of an eye.

Completely agree. I hate to see people suffer in a lot of pain emotionally. For example there’s no reason @Shadow Wolf should be going through what she is right now. If I had the opportunity I’d erase her problems and whomever else’s I could.

 

[Jainarayan]

The solution would be that if there were a wholly good god that it did not create this world/universe.

There’s no single agreed upon creation story. The Nasadiya Sukta aka Hymn of Creation, of the Rig Veda itself questions creation:

6. But, after all, who knows, and who can say
whence it all came, and how creation happened? The gods themselves are later than creation, so who knows truly whence it has arisen?

7. Whence all creation had its origin,
the creator, whether he fashioned it or whether he did not, the creator, who surveys it all from highest heaven, he knows — or maybe even he does not know.

And would very limited and not powerful enough or yet powerful enough in ability to be able to stop or prevent or cure. And at the minimum... did not create or author the nasty and vile stuff. Something else would have had to.

Karma.

Karma is not, as the word is incorrectly used, “paybacks are a *****”, cosmic or divine retribution or justice. When a group of animal poachers were eaten by lions, that was not karma. Karma means “action”.

 

[Bird123]

God, and these heavenly beings, have the power to instantly heal humanity of their physical and mental suffering, regardless if it's a form of suffering that's the fault of the individual suffering, or suffering that's been inflicted by an external situation out of the person's control, such as developing cancer.

But, they don't heal humanity of their suffering, and many spiritual believers think it's for our personal learning and growth. So, they think god, and these heavenly beings, allow suffering for a very good reason. But, if they're allowing it for a very good reason, then why would they allow cures to be discovered for said suffering?

It seems to me they don't care about humanity, and they allow anything to happen. They don't intervene, and they just allow life to play out. So, it seems they don't allow suffering for any good reason. They allow it because they just don't care what happens one way or the other.

Also, in the future, it's possible all forms of suffering and illness would be cured. That would leave virtually no room for personal growth for our souls, since we grow through suffering. Spiritual believers say our souls are here to undergo suffering for the purpose of learning and growing. But, if that's so, then god, and these heavenly beings, allowing cures to be discovered, would defeat that purpose.

So, it seems to me we're not here for any grand purpose. We're just here, and we're allowed to go through anything, whether it be immense suffering, the curing of our suffering, being able to pursue our goals and dreams, or someone not being able to pursue her goal and dream of being a singer, since an unfortunate event happened to her, such as her permanently losing her voice.

By the way, it seems god, and these heavenly beings, don't even care about our talents, goals, and dreams because, if a talented singer permanently lost her voice, then they wouldn't heal her voice. But, I bet there'd be something in the future that would cure a permanently lost voice. In which case, it wouldn't be a permanently lost voice.

So, given there'd be a cure for this, it seems people are allowed to permanently lose their voice for no good reason either. It's allowed to happen because god just doesn't care. Also, if any given amazing talent was a gift from god, then why would he allow an amazing singer to permanently lose her voice? Wouldn't god be ensuring that she can pursue her talent?

Lastly, there are claims out there of spiritual healers, who are people who can heal others of their physical and mental ailments. But, the existence of these spiritual healers would contradict this whole idea that humans are allowed to go through suffering and illness for a very good reason. If it can all just be completely healed, then that defeats the whole purpose of learning and growing through suffering and illness.

Adversity breeds invention. If there was no adversity, wouldn't you just sit back and enjoy the ride?

The cure is reached through the struggle to attain knowledge. Cure is the Goal. Suffering is not. Have you noticed when a disease is cured that a new disease pops up from somewhere. The next lesson continues moving us forward.

God has placed a limit on pain. The body goes into shock when it reaches a certain level.

So many times in life we don't get life as we want it. Our narrow view sometimes brings us to focus on one thing rather than the Big Picture. Further, this world contains many many people learning their lessons. The dynamics of it all are amazing. There is a lot to consider.

As I see it, God will give a person anything unless it interferes with their lessons or the lessons of another.

Adapt, learn, grow. If we can't have something, go for something we can have or get someone else something they need.

The possibilities are limitless. If a singer can no longer sing, perhaps they can create music making sound. Perhaps, they can advance computer generated singing. The avenues of creating are moved but there is always a way to move forward in some way.

Who said anyone should give up? Not here, my friend. Life is about Living. Forward is the only way.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Adversity breeds invention. If there was no adversity, wouldn't you just sit back and enjoy the ride?

The cure is reached through the struggle to attain knowledge. Cure is the Goal. Suffering is not. Have you noticed when a disease is cured that a new disease pops up from somewhere. The next lesson continues moving us forward.

God has placed a limit on pain. The body goes into shock when it reaches a certain level.

So many times in life we don't get life as we want it. Our narrow view sometimes brings us to focus on one thing rather than the Big Picture. Further, this world contains many many people learning their lessons. The dynamics of it all are amazing. There is a lot to consider.

As I see it, God will give a person anything unless it interferes with their lessons or the lessons of another.

Adapt, learn, grow. If we can't have something, go for something we can have or get someone else something they need.

The possibilities are limitless. If a singer can no longer sing, perhaps they can create music making sound. Perhaps, they can advance computer generated singing. The avenues of creating are moved but there is always a way to move forward in some way.

Who said anyone should give up? Not here, my friend. Life is about Living. Forward is the only way.

I consider what's the better, loving solution an all-loving god would implement. Would it really be the better, loving solution to allow humanity to go through this whole process of suffering and finding cures? Or, would it be the better, loving solution for god to just instantly heal those in need of healing? I think the latter solution is the better, loving one. Especially considering there are miserable people who are suicidal for many years, even with ongoing treatment, and are in need of mental healing. Also, in regards to goals and dreams, if that singer permanently lost her voice, she might not have any interest in creating music.

Sure, she might find an interest in doing another hobby. But, her singing hobby might always be the one hobby she has most interest in, and sees as the most beautiful. Now, she can no longer pursue that hobby, since god won't heal her voice. As a matter of fact, it could be an even worse scenario. She might not have an interest in any other hobby, no matter how much she tries other hobbies, and her singing hobby is the one and only hobby she has interest in.