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norse cosmology

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
You really dont have a clue do you?
You are of course free to express your own opinion but neither I nor my ideas are on trial here.
You have run this thread like it was some sort of Salem witch trial
You have your own pet theories and agenda and you regard anything else as some sort of heresy
I have tried to answer your questions when they were reasonable but Its clear by now (indeed it was clear from the beginning) that your only interest is attacking me.
Arguing doesn't establish who is right. Arguing only establishes who is the better arguer

I've said nothing whatsoever about you. Only your argument.

Yes, I do have my own pet theories, which I typically keep hidden because I'm a reconstructionist, and pet theories have no place in reconstructionism. I also have an agenda, but it has nothing to do with religion; my agenda is furthering the Open Source movement by arguing in favor of it whenever it comes up, and releasing my games as open source.

Debating and cross-examination has taught me so much in my years on this forum. I've cross-examined many ideas, and some have been successfully defended, and so I've adopted them. My own ideas have also been cross-examined, and if I'm unable to defend them, then that means I really should re-examine my views (something everyone should do, anyway.)

For the record, the kind of word-play your argument hinges on is something I, myself, used to do, and I've also fallen for others doing it in the past. Then I actually looked into how linguistics work, and it turns out that kind of word-play doesn't work.

After all, the Japanese say goodbye with "sayonara", and the Spanish say the same with "sayanora". It's uncanny. But there's no linguistic connection; it's just an amazing coincidence.

Plus, I fail to see the connection to the Salem Witch Trials. I've not accused you of inviting the devil into things, nor is your life on the line.

Did you really expect that your interpretations of Norse mythology would go unchallenged?
 
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Whiterain

Get me off of this planet
Granpa, take it in strides and don't get too flustered over debates on the internet.

It's beside the point but the Witch Trials happened all over the early America's, probably since the beginning.

People really don't speak out on it but there are witch cemeteries all out in the woods.

The 'sayonara' qouencidence is more than likely because the Japanese were also believed to travel to the America's as well as the Norse and even Irish
long before the establishment of the colonies. Even some of the Native American tribes on the West Coast has Asian sounding names.
 
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Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
The 'sayonara' qouencidence is more than likely because the Japanese were also believed to travel to the America's as well as the Norse and even Irish
long before the establishment of the colonies. Even some of the Native American tribes on the West Coast has Asian sounding names.

I said the "Spanish", because it's a Spanish word, as in, from Spain. Relatively modern Spain, at that. During the time of exploration, when Columbus et al were going around the world, Japan was closing its borders.

Do not make the mistake that "similar sounding" means "a significant relationship." There's only so many sounds the human mouth and throat can make.
 

granpa

Member
reminds one of a bunch of grapes

artemis.jpg


Wine:
Old English win, from Proto-Germanic *winam (cf. Old Saxon, Old Frisian, Old High German win, Old Norse vin, Dutch wijn, German Wein), an early borrowing from Latin vinum "wine," from PIE *win-o-, from an Italic noun related to words for "wine" in Greek (oinos), Armenian, Hittite, and non-Indo-European Georgian and West Semitic (cf. Arabic wain, Hebrew yayin), probably from a lost Mediterranean language word *win-/*woin- "wine."

Vine:
from Old French vigne, from Latin vinea "vine, vineyard," from vinum "wine," from PIE *win-o-, from an Italic noun related to words for "wine" in Greek, Armenian, Hittite, and non-Indo-European Georgian and West Semitic (cf. Hebrew yayin, Ethiopian wayn); probably ultimately from a lost Mediterranean language word *w(o)in- "wine."

Venus:
Old English, from Latin Venus (plural veneres), in ancient Roman mythology, the goddess of beauty and love, especially sensual love, from venus "love, sexual desire, loveliness, beauty, charm," from PIE root *wen- "to strive after, wish, desire, be satisfied" (cf. Sanskrit vanas- "desire," vanati "desires, loves, wins;" Avestan vanaiti "he wishes, is victorious;" Old English wynn "joy," wunian "to dwell," wenian "to accustom, train, wean," wyscan "to wish").
 
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Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
reminds one of a bunch of grapes

artemis.jpg


Wine:
Old English win, from Proto-Germanic *winam (cf. Old Saxon, Old Frisian, Old High German win, Old Norse vin, Dutch wijn, German Wein), an early borrowing from Latin vinum "wine," from PIE *win-o-, from an Italic noun related to words for "wine" in Greek (oinos), Armenian, Hittite, and non-Indo-European Georgian and West Semitic (cf. Arabic wain, Hebrew yayin), probably from a lost Mediterranean language word *win-/*woin- "wine."

Vine:
from Old French vigne, from Latin vinea "vine, vineyard," from vinum "wine," from PIE *win-o-, from an Italic noun related to words for "wine" in Greek, Armenian, Hittite, and non-Indo-European Georgian and West Semitic (cf. Hebrew yayin, Ethiopian wayn); probably ultimately from a lost Mediterranean language word *w(o)in- "wine."

Venus:
Old English, from Latin Venus (plural veneres), in ancient Roman mythology, the goddess of beauty and love, especially sensual love, from venus "love, sexual desire, loveliness, beauty, charm," from PIE root *wen- "to strive after, wish, desire, be satisfied" (cf. Sanskrit vanas- "desire," vanati "desires, loves, wins;" Avestan vanaiti "he wishes, is victorious;" Old English wynn "joy," wunian "to dwell," wenian "to accustom, train, wean," wyscan "to wish").

Kālī Kali
Santa Satan
Armor Amour
God Good
 

granpa

Member
Thats strange. My last post didn't register.
It still says that the last post was by river wolf


There we go, it now says that the last post was by granpa
 
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Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
By the way, the multi-breasted Goddess of Fertility wasn't any form of Aphrodite (Venus), but a less well-known form of Artemis.

Is there some overarching argument you're trying to get to with all this tossing together unrelated mythologies?
 

Whiterain

Get me off of this planet
Why did you use a square? It's throwing my perception off. It's great you're trying to visualize
the realms but it's still hard to understand.

I may make some charts based on my vague understanding.
 

granpa

Member
first familiarize yourself with Ymir and the norse creation myth then read this:
http://www.hinduwebsite.com/zoroastrianism/cycles.asp

According to the Bundahishn, the first period is known as the Infinite Time. During this period, God Ohrmazd was forever. He was the Endless light, infinite, omniscient, goodness and eternal. He dwelt in the region of light and was all by Himself. During this time, Ahirmanm the evil being, was in his abysmal station, in his dark world. He was endless darkness, who was filled with destructive desire and malice. Both were separated by a great Void, which some call ether. Both are said to be finite as well as infinite. God is infinite or endless from the heights of the light region above and Ahirman is infinite and endless from the abysmal depths of darkness below. However since both are limited by the Void in between and not connected to each other, they are also regarded as finite. Because God is omniscient, He knew from the beginning about the existence of Ahirman beyond the Void, but Ahirman was not aware of God. God also knew about the confrontation between the two. So He created several entities spiritually for the coming battle.

But at some point in Infinite Time, Ahirman rose from his station and crossed the abyss. He came to the domain of luminous stars and saw Ahura Mazda in his full brilliance. Overcome with destructive desire and malice, He attacked him, but met with a greater valor and fortitude which he could not deal with. God saw the creatures of Ahirman and was not impressed with them. But Ahirman saw the entities of God and was over awed by them. Knowing well what was going to happen, God offered peace to Ahirman, asking him to obey His command and respect His entities. Ahirman misconstrued the offer as God's weakness and rejected the offer. Then knowing well His malicious nature, God made an agreement with him, where by he deferred the contest by 9000 years. God offered this agreement because through His omniscience He foresaw that during the first three thousand years His will would prevail, the next three thousand years the will of both would prevail in a mingled state and in the third phase He would render the Evil Spirit useless. Ahirman accepted the offer as he was unable to foresee what was going to happen. After making the agreement, God chanted the most auspicious Ahunwar manthra and showed the Evil Spirit a vision what was going to happen eventually. After seeing the vision, Ahirman lost his heart and fell back into the Void overwhelmed with fear and despair.

sounds like Surtr and Ymir to me

At-a-glance/Zoroastrian_mythology
 
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granpa

Member
had I known how big a project it was going to turn into I would never have started it to begin with and the results have been disappointing.

the whole thing has left me feeling drained.

I just dont have the energy to put into it that I used to.
 

Whiterain

Get me off of this planet
A lot of it is incoherent to me. It's hard to understand exactly what the Yggdrasil represents, if it
represents cosmology or dimensions or realms. If it is a tree alone or a metaphor representing
something deeper. It could represent our solar system for instance, 9 worlds. But those worlds are
not habitable. If it represents different dimensions that being applicable is gone and will be until
the existence of another dimension becomes a fact. If it represents different worlds in the cosmos
that would be amazing, comprehensible and awesome.

If it represents realms Earth could represent it as one place, in an ancient world before common
knowledge of the realms today, or knowledge that wasn't greatly know or excepted my the numerous
kingdoms.

The races are the key mystery of the enigma's of mythology. People quickly regard Norse Myth as
fantasy, it being the cornerstone of fantasy with the Elves and Dwarves. But when I began reading
the Sagas it talks about how the Dwarves were in Midgard before Man and the only thing I could
think of was the stout Neanderthal. Yet the description of the Dwarves was they were diminutive
and ugly, the Neanderthal shares the appearance of the contemporary Dwarf. I've mention my
notice of this and was shunned.

The characteristics of Elves went relatively vague yet they are known to be beautiful and fair, their
skeletons may resemble those of Man, but different racial features. DNA is another thing, some
races share genes while others do not but it is under constant debate. Then there is the Jotun's who
I accept as Titans or Nephilim, Nephilim in current religious beliefs although refuted. Even though
the gigantism gene runs strong in today's world it is refuted and said to be a hormone mutation,
com'on world..
nG4dC.jpg


The gigantism gene is the strongest evidence of these legends and researches will not recognize it,
I feel like I'm about to get shanked when I mention it, humiliation is expected.

But, the Dwarves, Elves and Giants had their own worlds, that seeped into Midgard, except the
Dwarves whom the High One let move here for Ragnarok? When that prophecy was in the works.

We've found many creatures resembling mythological beasts, a gigantic humboldt squid was recently
discovered (atleast 60ft including tentacles), then titanboa(titan serpent, these researches assumed it
was a boa without a skull), but that was more than likely a giant anaconda. My favorite is Predator X,
a gigantic pliosaur based on likeness.

rONgD75.jpg

Pliosaurus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When I first saw the documentary of Predator X it made my day. I was content on that was
a dragon, since velociraptors aren't enough. But with the geological scale as it is recognized
these discoveries do not complete myths and make it nearly impossible to assume dinosaurs
were the dragons of myth.

And Dire Wolves are not a secret, yet the remains of a beautiful beast like Fenrir have not been found,
even though he was in a different dimension/realm and unless the size of the great wolf is exaggerated.

kAep0k3.jpg
 

granpa

Member
in the context of human history the dragon in megalodon.

in other contexts it means other things.

it doesnt have just one interpretation.

the same is true of all the other parts of norse mythology

(and other world mythologies)
 

Whiterain

Get me off of this planet
in the context of human history the dragon in megalodon.

in other contexts it means other things.

it doesnt have just one interpretation.

the same is true of all the other parts of norse mythology

(and other world mythologies)


True, true, I'm not trying to debate, that is just what I assembled in my mind.
 

granpa

Member
can you imagine what it would look like if earth had rings like satyrn?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bifröst

In Norse mythology, Bifröst pronunciation (help·info) (Bifrost in Scandinavia) or sometimes Bilröst, is a burning rainbow bridge that reaches between Midgard (the world) and Asgard, the realm of the gods

The bridge is mentioned in the Prose Edda books Gylfaginning and Skáldskaparmál, where it is referred to as Bifröst. In chapter 13 of Gylfaginning, Gangleri (King Gylfi in disguise) asks the enthroned figure of High what way exists between heaven and earth. Laughing, High replies that the question isn't an intelligent one, and goes on to explain that the gods built a bridge from heaven and earth. He incredulously asks Gangleri if he has not heard the story before. High says that Gangleri must have seen it, and notes that Gangleri may call it a rainbow. High says that the bridge consists of three colors, has great strength, "and is built with art and skill to a greater extent than other constructions."https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bifröst#cite_note-FAULKES15-8
 
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