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Featured None have Suffered More

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by TransmutingSoul, Nov 30, 2022.

  1. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    I see all the Messengers of God have had to suffer greatly. This OP is about all the Messengers and Prophets that have come from God.

    I see their suffering was for us and our neglect of their Messages brings great sadness upon all humanity. They accepted all that suffering, and still do, so we can be released from our chains and bondage to this world.

    I also weep for our neglect, as it is their Love that we reject, how can we be forgiven?

    I offer a thought from the Baha'i Writings on this topic and ask also for your thoughts.

    It has been recorded that during the last years of Bahá'u'lláh's exile in Baghdád, that He spoke many times of the period of trial and hardship that was to come and one such warning revealed to Him was recorded from a dream He had, which is described as follows:

    "I saw," He wrote in a Tablet, "the Prophets and the Messengers gather and seat themselves around Me, moaning, weeping and loudly lamenting. Amazed, I inquired of them the reason, whereupon their lamentation and weeping waxed greater, and they said unto me: `We weep for Thee, O Most Great Mystery, O Tabernacle of Immortality!' They wept with such a weeping that I too wept with them. Thereupon the Concourse on high addressed Me saying: `...Erelong shalt Thou behold with Thine own eyes what no Prophet hath beheld.... Be patient, be patient.'... They continued addressing Me the whole night until the approach of dawn." -- Bahá'u'lláh, quoted in Shoghi Effendi, God Passes By, p. 147

    I see the above passsage is applicable to all the Prophets and Messengers, as it the following quote.

    "..Thou wert created to bear and endure, O Patience of the worlds..." Bahá’u’lláh, The Fire Tablet, Bahá’í Prayers, p. 317

    Imagine what they take on for humanity, they bring Love, we offer hate. They bring peace we offer war. They one and all, suffer for us.

    So what are your thoughts? Can you imagine any greater suffering than what the Prophets and Messengers have faced?

    Regards Tony
     
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  2. Ella S.

    Ella S. Well-Known Member

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    I've seen starving orphans survive sexual assaults and bodily mutilation only to die of diseases like cancer and leukemia before their 12th birthday.

    Any one of them has suffered more than any prophet I've ever heard of. To think that any prophet could actually comprehend the immense suffering that exists in this world is a cruel joke to me. To think their pitiful teachings are a solution seems downright grandiose on their part.

    If Jesus actually cared about saving us, then he'd still be going around performing miraculous faith healing. Even that wouldn't be enough, but it would at least be something more than leaving us with pithy sayings.
     
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  3. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    It may be hard to discuss this topic if one comes to it with all guns balzing. :)

    One can approach the subject on the level of material suffering, which many share in, yet we can consider that what people of abuse suffer more from, is from the Psychological trauma.

    I see many people who suffer material pain and afflictions, have a very happy and positive outlooks in their lives.

    It is an interesting topic worth exploring as the end to suffering is possible, even if one has faced many material based afflictions and mental trauma.

    Regards Tony
     
  4. F1fan

    F1fan Veteran Member

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    Think of the suffering that gays have to endure from prejudice and intolerance by others, including religious dogmas. If Bahai’s messengers have suffered then I would expect more tolerance and empathy from them.
     
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  5. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    I personally know a woman who was forced to watch her husband get axed to death, her two teenagers, a boy and a girl, get raped repeatedly, only to be followed by her own rape. I concur with you totally. These 'prophets' didn't know what suffering was, and to claim they did outsuffer the many who have suffered is in poor taste. Cruel joke indeed.
     
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  6. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    To avoid that, I suggest a less provocative thread title.
     
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  7. Ella S.

    Ella S. Well-Known Member

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    People aren't traumatized because they need to check their outlook. They're traumatized because they experience traumatic events which shock their nervous systems.

    Cultivating the discipline to deal with traumatic events takes time that children especially don't have and, even then, it's not going to magically prevent you from being traumatized.

    The truth is that some people suffer through no fault of their own and lack the necessary resources they need to overcome that suffering. They need resources, not someone to preach at them.
     
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  8. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    It doesn't make me sad when people neglect the dogmatic aspects of so called Messenger teachings.

    It makes me happy.

    So your claim that it brings great sadness upon all humanity is utterly unfounded.

    In my opinion.
     
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  9. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Behold my glorious prophet who suffered! Let me tell you all about it! Sheesh.
     
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  10. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Yeah, I'm certainly not saddened from being deaf, ill, blind, a fool, and everything else attributed to me (and you, and many) for simply being a non-Baha'i. Now, that lady I mentioned, a friend, that is sad. She now has dementia, which is probably a blessing in disguise.
     
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  11. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Veteran Member
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    I haven't seen any suffering a religious icon has experienced that is unique to them, or hasn't been compounded by being an out-group different to that religious icon.

    I am not awed by martyrs who seek glory in their suffering and less so who think suffering is a virtue added to their character, as it causes apathy and indifference to the suffering of others.
     
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  12. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Veteran Member

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    Jesus? Sure. The Bab and Baha'u'llah? Yeah. Now tell me how the others suffered to that extreme? Adam? Noah? Abraham? Moses? Zoroaster? Krishna? Buddha? Muhammad?
     
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  13. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Leaderless Animal

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    Aside from the usual point that the Buddha was not a messenger or prophet from a deity, in the common use of the word "suffering" the Buddha did not suffer (aside from a period of self-imposed strict asceticism). As to the word meaning the broader dukkha, he supposedly achieved liberation from this at Bodh Gaya - which then set in motion the teaching that we now call Buddhism.
     
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  14. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    I'd be keen for the OP to outline the suffering of Muhammad.

    [Edit]
    Just realised I didn't quote the OP, so @TransmutingSoul wouldn't have received an alert. Apologies!!
    [/Edit]
     
    #14 lewisnotmiller, Nov 30, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2022
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  15. icehorse

    icehorse Veteran Member
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    Ha! I think you're the one who came out with guns blazing :)

    I think what @Ella S. said is spot on. And I'd add that many so-called prophets brought their suffering on themselves. This is far different than the starving child.
     
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  16. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Oh yes, some have already been mentioned, we all suffer at one time or bother, those claiming to talk to god so that makes them special are nothing special.
     
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  17. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    I see Messengers have also suffered prejudice and intolerance and were the apex of empathy.

    Regards Tony
     
  18. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    It is possible to do that, but at the same time I am aware of and realise that it will eventually be brought up, that this was offered by a Messenger.

    So why not disclose it at the very beginning?

    Why would that be offered, given the fact many will immediately jump on to what people have faced in this material world!

    Regards Tony
     
  19. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    This is not in debate, really it is not, I agree.

    But why would it be a Messenger suffers more than all we can suffer? My thought is they take all this suffering on themselves, willingly accept it on behalf of all humanity.

    This is what I am thinking.

    Regards Tony
     
  20. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    That would support the OP, they suffer such comments.

    Regards Tony
     
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