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Featured Non-Trinitarians: What's wrong with the Trinity?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Eddi, Dec 28, 2019.

  1. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    So you're saying that God is His own Son, and that Jesus is His own Father? o_O When Stephen "looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God," what exactly do you think He was seeing?
     
    #21 Katzpur, Dec 28, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2019
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  2. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

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    Then God said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness''
    any one feel like they have 3 faces
     
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  3. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    Makes perfect sense to me, but I must say it didn’t make sense at all and I rejected the Trinity until I was born again.
     
  4. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    I'm born again and it still doesn't make sense to me. It probably didn't make any sense to most people until 325 A.D. when they were told that accepting it was a prerequisite for salvation.
     
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  5. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    It was not a prerequisite for me. I visited a Christian Bible church one Sunday, never had been there before and walked out of there saying to my husband, “Well, the people were nice and all, but I don’t know how anyone can believe the Trinity nonsense “.
    One week later, at home, not in a church, nor associated with any church both my husband and trusted Jesus Christ and Him alone as our Savior. We were born again, all things became new and everything seemed different. Our perception of our lives, the world, people, the spiritual realm changed... and the Trinity. It just made sense, we both knew it was true.
     
  6. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    By the way, if you study the scriptures and history you’ll find that Constantine can no more be blamed for inventing the Trinity than He can be said to have switched worship from Saturday to Sunday, since the early Christians were already gathering for worship on the first day of the week. In similar fashion the concept of God’s triune Nature was also understood by the Apostles and early church.
     
    #26 InChrist, Dec 28, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
  7. Duke_Leto

    Duke_Leto Active Member

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    Meaning you didn't think about it.
     
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  8. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    Umm... sounds like you've accepted Partialism, not Trinitarianism.

    Trinitarian Heresies
     
  9. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    Didn’t think about what? If you are referring to the Trinity, then I will say at the moment I trusted in Jesus Christ I did not think about it, but I had over a period of several years thought about it and decided it was nonsense...until after I was born again and had my mind enlightened and changed by the Holy Spirit.
     
  10. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    I was raised Catholic and also left that religion as well as rejected the concept of the Trinity as false nonsense, but no longer after knowing Jesus as Savior.
    I don’t see Christianity as blowing off the first commandment or doubt the real relationship Abraham, Moses, Samuel had with God. Yet, I do not consider Christianity to be heretical. The scriptures show that God just chose to progressively reveal information about Himself and His Being in increments to humanity. There are definitely passages and hints in the OT disclosing and pointing to the triune nature of God and the Apostles as well as Thomas who doubted at first recognized that Jesus was God, equal and the same as the God of Israel revealed to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob... when he as a Jew said to Jesus, “ My Lord and my God”.
     
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  11. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Being one who believes in the three core elements of the trinity, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit I find the trinity useful as an initial attempt to consider the relationship between the three. I don’t see it as necessary. If believers find it helpful I’m all for it. If believers find it a hindrance they should feel free to abandon it. I’m a non-trinitarian.
     
  12. Samantha Rinne

    Samantha Rinne Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist

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    They sorta did. I mean, in the early tradition of Judaism, God was known to personify as all sorts of things, most norably as a pillar of fire or as a burning bush, but sometimes in the form of a man. In any case, God was a deity who appeared directly to his people, and traveled with them in a tent. All of this changed when the Temple was built, the priests wanted to hide God behind a thick curtain (this is the real reason Jesus came, besides our sins, to tear this curtain down). This personal relationship is Jesus.

    The Jews also had a sense of an all-pervasive spirit within everyone (and probably everything). This is mentioned less, but we do hear about the "spirit of the Lord" leaving Saul, and him shortly thereafter becoming possessed by an evil spirit.
     
  13. Samantha Rinne

    Samantha Rinne Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist

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    Huh?!? I know this can happen, but it feels like there is a missing event here in this story.

    As for the Trinitarian heresies, I think that I'm a modalist. I just can't understand the Trinity without thinking of God as three different parts, a Creator who is basically some sort of being far above our understanding, a Spirit (I always wind up with a Shinto animism thing) that is in everything that exists, and a Person who is the bridge to God and Man. I believe this because I'm not sure how Trinity works otherwise.

    Ohhh, it says they're kinda in different eras.
     
    #33 Samantha Rinne, Dec 29, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
  14. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    I've never even implied that Constantine should be blamed for coming up with the concept of the Trinity, so there's no need for you to try to fall back on that argument. If you can show me any evidence that the Apostles understood the Father, Son and Holy Ghost to all be a part of an indivisible substance, I'd enjoy reading their words.
     
  15. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    And that the Trinity is central not only to the Roman church but also the Orthodox, although with differences.

    "Without wishing to resolve yet the difficulties which have arisen between East and West concerning the relationship between the Son and the Spirit, we can already say together that this Spirit, which proceeds from the Father (Jn. 15:26) as the sole source in the Trinity and which has become the Spirit of our sonship (Rom. 8:15) since he is also the Spirit of the Son (Gal. 4:6), is communicated to us particularly in the Eucharist by this Son upon whom he reposes in time and in eternity (Jn. 1:32)."
    On the basis of Jn. 15:26, this Symbol confesses the Spirit "to ek tou Patros ekporeuomenon" ("who takes his origin from the Father"). The Father alone is the principle without principle (arche anarchos) of the two other persons of the Trinity, the sole source (peghe) of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit, therefore, takes his origin from the Father alone (ek monou tou Patros) in a principal, proper, and immediate manner.

    Library : The Father as the Source of the Whole Trinity: The Procession of the Holy Spirit in Greek and Latin Traditions
     
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  16. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    Better question; whom was God addressing?, there is a dialogue within God.
     
  17. axxxa_3

    axxxa_3 New Member

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    This is such a confusing thing. I'm sorry this just doesn't make sense.

    You Christians say that the Father, Son, and Holy spirit are 3 divine persons in one. I may not be that good with math but I know for a fact that 1 + 1 + 1 cannot possibly give you 1.

    And you say it yourselves, they are 3 DIFFERENT PERSONS.

    In Islam, we believe that God is unique and no other partner or object is associated with him. He was not created and he has no children.

    You also say that Jesus is the son of God. So logically you're saying that Mary gave birth to her own God??

    The trinity lacks both common sense and logic. You talk about trinity but not ONCE is the word "Trinity" mentioned in the Bible... There is only 1 verse in the complete bible that comes close to the trinity in the Gospel of John Chapter 5 Verse 7 which says "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." but there are 32 Christian scholars that revised the bible and they all say that this verse of the bible is a FABRICATION and it was thrown out of the Bible.

    However, it IS mentioned in the Quran in Surah Al Nisa' Chapter 4 Verse 171 "Say not "Trinity" it will be better for you"

    Jesus Christ peace be upon him never said he was God and the concept of Trinity doesn't even exist in the Bible! He never said "I am God or worship Me"

    In fact, Jesus states in the Gospel of John Chapter 5 Verse 30 "I can of my own self do nothing". This just proves that Jesus is not God because God is self-sufficient He does not need anything or anyone.

    I hope this answer satisfies you and if you have more questions it would be my pleasure to answer them :))
     
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  18. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Hmm.

    Well, what if one says "the problem i have with the trinity is that the Bible nowhere spells it out though its the primary, most important, foundation of your faith"?

    Do you understand what spells it out means? Simple.

    God should simply say "God is three, father, son and the holy ghost are three persons but one person".

    Since the Bible doesnt say that anywhere, thats whats wrong with the trinity one may say. What do you say?
     
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  19. MJ Bailey

    MJ Bailey Member

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    Trinity is only one number in relevance in which you seek. So why are you questioning?
     
  20. MJ Bailey

    MJ Bailey Member

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    Why such a trivial question if you are so sure of the answer?
     
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