Non-Theist Friend (Religous Society of Friends)

[SageTree]

Hello, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts after reading this from a Quaker Perspective. This is something I've read about for some time and would like to discuss this respectfully in this forum with you.

Thank you.

:namaste
SageTree



From:Nontheist_Friend

A nontheist Friend or an atheist Quaker is someone who affiliates with, identifies with, engages in and/or affirms Quaker practices and processes, but who does not necessarily accept a belief in a theistic understanding of God, a Supreme Being, the divine, the soul or the supernatural. Like traditional Friends, nontheist Friends are actively interested in realizing centered peace, simplicity, integrity, community, equality, love, joy, and social justice in the Society of Friends and beyond.

From: www.nontheistfriends.org

Nontheistfriends.org presents the work of Friends (Quakers) who are more concerned with the natural than the supernatural. Some of us understand “God” as a symbol of human values and some of us avoid the concept while accepting it as significant to others. We differ greatly in our religious experience and in the meaning we give religious terms.
We are not a pressure group trying to move Quakerism toward nontheism. We bless what our theist brothers and sisters bring to Quaker meetings and worship. All Friends have much to learn from each other. We hope to strengthen the Quaker tradition of welcoming people of diverse religious experience and to show by example that this can include nontheists.
We are part of meeting communities that include theists and nontheists. Together we worship and love and cooperate, even as we differ on the particulars of our religious experience. Quakerism has been changing ever since George Fox had his first opening on Pendle Hill, becoming deeper and richer. We are all part of this living faith.

From: Nontheistic Christianity

A few liberal Christian theologians, define a "nontheistic God" as "the ground of all being" rather than as a personal divine being.



John Shelby Spong refers to a theistic God as "a personal being with expanded supernatural, human, and parental qualities, which has shaped every religious idea of the Western world."


From a nontheist, naturalist, and rationalist perspective, the concept of divine grace appears to be the same concept as luck.


Many of them owe much of their theology to the work of Christian existentialist philosopher Paul Tillich, including the phrase "the ground of all being". Another quotation from Tillich is, "God does not exist. He is being itself beyond essence and existence. Therefore to argue that God exists is to deny him." This Tillich quotation summarizes his conception of God. He does not think of God as a being which exists in time and space, because that constrains God, and makes God finite. But all beings are finite, and if God is the Creator of all beings, God cannot logically be finite since a finite being cannot be the sustainer of an infinite variety of finite things. Thus God is considered beyond being, above finitude and limitation, the power or essence of being itself.


Secular humanist Sidney Hook wrote in an essay called "The Atheism of Paul Tillich":

With amazing courage Tillich boldly says that the God of the multitudes does not exist, and further, that to believe in His existence is to believe in an idol and ultimately to embrace superstition. God cannot be an entity among entities, even the highest. He is being-in-itself. In this sense Tillich's God is like the God of Spinoza and the God of Hegel. Both Spinoza and Hegel were denounced for their atheism by the theologians of the past because their God was not a Being or an Entity. Tillich, however, is one of the foremost theologians of our time.

 

[Straw Dog]

I can dig it!

The god that can be named is not the One True God.
The word that can be written is not the Eternal Word.

The Absolute cannot be adequately captured with relative linguistic-conceptual frameworks because it must necessarily transcend all contexts. The unprogrammed Quaker form of worship works well with this as the divine is best approached in silence. Too many people are spouting off too many words about that which is ultimately beyond words. It doesn't make sense to "speak for God" because we actually just end up speaking for ourselves within the context of our experiences. I don't see a way that people can evade this language barrier. Sometimes it's appropriate to speak up for ourselves however, especially if we find inspiration to do so from a deep sense of connection to the source of being within us. It does almost seem more pantheistic than atheistic, though.

 

[SageTree]

I can dig it!

The god that can be named is not the One True God.
The word that can be written is not the Eternal Word.

Absolutely

It does almost seem more pantheistic than atheistic, though.

There in lies my own spiritual struggle.... to label myself.... for whatever that matter

Atheists get to also call themselves Non-Theists,
However I think that paradoxically enough this should be a KIND of theism.
You follow me?

When I talk about what I believe in, most people are inclined to feel I have a belief in God,
But when I say that God to me isn't God to another, this makes sense too....

However, when you tell someone you don't have a very theistic theism, I lose them.

It's a bit pantheistic... it's a bit transtheistic.... in a traditional sense, these are not your Pappy's theism....

I think non-theism should be for those people who have beliefs about the Divine,
but just live out their life and don't go trying to formulate that Deities every detail and function.

Does that make sense?

Christianity is a ritual.... but beyond the dance is the breath of the Path.
'Christ' is bigger than Christianity, imo...
The name for it just changes.

 

[Iti oj]

Word up man. Informative and interesting. I cant wait to check out a friends meeting.

 

[Straw Dog]

There in lies my own spiritual struggle.... to label myself.... for whatever that matter

Atheists get to also call themselves Non-Theists,
However I think that paradoxically enough this should be a KIND of theism.
You follow me?

When I talk about what I believe in, most people are inclined to feel I have a belief in God,
But when I say that God to me isn't God to another, this makes sense too....

However, when you tell someone you don't have a very theistic theism, I lose them.

Yeah, I can relate to that. I decided not to label myself anything in particular as it depends on context. I simply refuse to give a label when people go fishing for one. They may end up applying one anyway, but that happens regardless. I would be called atheist relative to certain concepts of deity. I would be called trans-theist relative to other notions, pantheist to others yet, etc.

If the "Absolute" necessarily transcends all relative limitations of language and concepts then no single label or point of view can claim a monopoly on "Truth" over another label or view. So far I haven't seen anyone successfully evade the contextual dependence of language to actually "speak for God" although many people seem to think that they are. Words, words, words...

 

[SageTree]

Yeah, I can relate to that. I decided not to label myself anything in particular as it depends on context. I simply refuse to give a label when people go fishing for one. They may end up applying one anyway, but that happens regardless. I would be called atheist relative to certain concepts of deity. I would be called trans-theist relative to other notions, pantheist to others yet, etc.

If the "Absolute" necessarily transcends all relative limitations of language and concepts then no single label or point of view can claim a monopoly on "Truth" over another label or view. So far I haven't seen anyone successfully evade the contextual dependence of language to actually "speak for God" although many people seem to think that they are. Words, words, words...

Thanks for reminding me what I like hearing from you.

Kindred Spirits?

SageTree

 

[Straw Dog]

Kindred Spirits?

Definitely. Is that bro-mance in the air?

 

[SageTree]

Yea, man... if you got a free night give me a bro-jangle?

 

[Nateswift]

James R of non-theist Friends is an outstanding person, thinker and expresses himself very well. As I recall, he is an atheist himself, but the site is about non-traditional approaches to the question of God and relating to that entity. To be honest, many Quaker Meetings, especially Conservative, would not be open to his ideas and perceptions, though the liberal branches are much more likely to be (heck, there are even some Meetings that can be hostile to traditional Christian perceptions)

"Quaker" traditionally is more about processes than beliefs; a way to work out how best to live in community.