Non-literal Genesis Evidences

[The Anointed]

I wish to point out that the story when it says firmament is generally taken to be talking about the separation between groundwater plus oceans and rainclouds. Rain falls, and the great deep pushes water upwards in Genesis. The quote seems not non-literal interpretation but rather a redefinition of sky to mean galaxy, and it seems far fetched to me to have to go to such lengths as redefining firmament to refer to the entire galaxy.

Brichjectivity wrote........I wish to point out that the story when it says firmament is generally taken to be talking about the separation between groundwater plus oceans and rainclouds.

The Anointed......By whom? By you? Not by modern scholars who define the firmament as a dome that surrounds our solar system, where, within that dome=firmament is our sun, moon and planets. .

Brichjectivity wrote...….The quote seems not non-literal interpretation but rather a redefinition of sky to mean galaxy, and it seems far fetched to me to have to go to such lengths as redefining firmament to refer to the entire galaxy

The Anointed.........Psalms 148: 4; KJV 4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.5 Let them praise the name of the Lord: for he commanded, and they were created.6 He hath also stablished them for ever and ever: he hath made a decree which shall not pass.

The Hebrew word used here, is "shamayim" which means more than just a galaxy but all the galaxies within this universe, For God created the HEAVENS=SHAMAYIM and the earth, in other words, 'The Universe."

 

[PruePhillip]

It is true the story does not explain this. It seems a thin place in the plot, except Eve is called the mother of all the living. To me it follows in the atory that Cain marries either a half or a full sister - full presuming that she is Adam's. I think that is the gist but not a focal point in the plot.

It says that God made Adam and Eve.
It doesn't say that these were the first or only people.
Have to be careful how you read things. To the modern
mind the Adam and Eve thing funny. However the 18th
Century mind found it funny that "God commanded
the seas to bring forth life."
God didn't create life per se, He commanded His
creation to create life.

 

[Dawnofhope]

thanks for this reference. Let me recall. Is that the 'Be attitudes' ?

I get quite fired up when talking about the Eternal Covenant of God and Messianic scripture lol. But it’s OK now, I’m totally chilled and ready to hold hands, thread daisies through my hair and sing Kumbaya.

 

[PruePhillip]

I get quite fired up when talking about the Eternal Covenant of God and Messianic scripture lol. But it’s OK now, I’m totally chilled and ready to hold hands, thread daisies through my hair and sing Kumbaya.

Where did you read THAT in the bible?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Where did you read THAT in the bible?

It was a parody of the hippie movement and liberal Christianity...

Liberal Christianity - Wikipedia

 

[Brickjectivity]

The Anointed......By whom? By you? Not by modern scholars who define the firmament as a dome that surrounds our solar system, where, within that dome=firmament is our sun, moon and planets. .

Venus is considered a star in Genesis and star of the morning in Isaiah 14, and the Bible makes no effort to correct that grievously wrong image. What little it does mention of the cosmos is almost always inacurate. The scholars you allege do not know this? Genesis shows no cognizance of planets. Genesis mentions no planets at all, instead referring to Venus as one of the lights given to keep track of times and seasons. There is no indication that Earth is a planet, nor mention of the dance around the sun or rotation of the galaxy. Instead it uses commonly seen items water, clay and lights to teach things.

The Hebrew word used here, is "shamayim" which means more than just a galaxy but all the galaxies within this universe, For God created the HEAVENS=SHAMAYIM and the earth, in other words, 'The Universe."

You mentioned that Psalms talks about galaxies. The concept of the universe in the literal Psalms says the LORD makes clouds his chariot. That sounds not universe sized, but I think its not about the universe or about weather or technical data just like Genesis probably isnt.

 

[Brickjectivity]

It says that God made Adam and Eve.
It doesn't say that these were the first or only people.
Have to be careful how you read things. To the modern
mind the Adam and Eve thing funny. However the 18th
Century mind found it funny that "God commanded
the seas to bring forth life."
God didn't create life per se, He commanded His
creation to create life.

Well said the command is for the sea and land to bring forth.

 

[PruePhillip]

Venus is considered a star in Genesis and star of the morning in Isaiah 14, and the Bible makes no effort to correct that grievously wrong image. What little it does mention of the cosmos is almost always inacurate. The scholars you allege do not know this? Genesis shows no cognizance of planets. Genesis mentions no planets at all, instead referring to Venus as one of the lights given to keep track of times and seasons. There is no indication that Earth is a planet, nor mention of the dance around the sun or rotation of the galaxy. Instead it uses commonly seen items water, clay and lights to teach things.
.

You are correct. Genesis makes no mention that the moon is another world, and not just a "light that rules the night." But is Genesis wrong? Solomon said that sun rises, sets and hastens back to where it started - but is he wrong? And if he was wrong, is the point he was making wrong?


The bible doesn't mention galaxies, quasars, neutrinos, space-time, speed of light, the nature of the photon, time dilation, black holes, string theory, M-theory, big bang and perhaps an infinite number of other things we as yet know nothing off.

The bible tells you how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go. But the little it did say about the sequence of events in the ordering of our earth is fairly accurate.

 

[The Anointed]

Venus is considered a star in Genesis and star of the morning in Isaiah 14, and the Bible makes no effort to correct that grievously wrong image. What little it does mention of the cosmos is almost always inacurate. The scholars you allege do not know this? Genesis shows no cognizance of planets. Genesis mentions no planets at all, instead referring to Venus as one of the lights given to keep track of times and seasons. There is no indication that Earth is a planet, nor mention of the dance around the sun or rotation of the galaxy. Instead it uses commonly seen items water, clay and lights to teach things.

You mentioned that Psalms talks about galaxies. The concept of the universe in the literal Psalms says the LORD makes clouds his chariot. That sounds not universe sized, but I think its not about the universe or about weather or technical data just like Genesis probably isnt.

Brichjectivity wrote...…. "Psalms says the LORD makes clouds his chariot.."

The Anointed...….. And where did you learn that? From one of your so-call religious scholars I suppose; but definitely not from the Holy Scriptures.

Psalms 18: 10;He rode on a cherub.....He made darkness his covering around him, his canopy thick clouds and dark with water.

The Cherubs are the chariots of God; See 1 Chronicles 28: 18.

Ezekiel descries the Cherubs on the lid of the covenant box, which box was placed in the Holy of Holies beneath the outspread wings of the two greater golden cherubs, do you know in what form the cherubs, the chariots of God were depicted, and where the covenant box is today?

 

[The Anointed]

Brichjectivity wrote...…. "Psalms says the LORD makes clouds his chariot.."

The Anointed...….. And where did you learn that? From one of your so-call religious scholars I suppose; but definitely not from the Holy Scriptures.

Psalms 18: 10;He rode on a cherub.....He made darkness his covering around him, his canopy thick clouds and dark with water.

The Cherubs are the chariots of God; See KJV 1 Chronicles 28: 18.

Ezekiel descries the Cherubs on the lid of the covenant box, which box was placed in the Holy of Holies beneath the outspread wings of the two greater golden cherubs, do you know in what form the cherubs, the chariots of Go,d were depicted, and where the covenant box is today?

 

[Brickjectivity]

The Anointed...….. And where did you learn that? From one of your so-call religious scholars I suppose; but definitely not from the Holy Scriptures.

Psalms 18:10;He rode on a cherub.....He made darkness his covering around him, his canopy thick clouds and dark with water.

Just referencing a Psalm that literally contradicts the Psalm quoted by yourself, additionally showing the Psalms like Genesis should not be read literally, though its off topic a little.

Psa 104:3 - "(KJV) Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:"

 

[The Anointed]

Just referencing a Psalm that literally contradicts the Psalm quoted by yourself, additionally showing the Psalms like Genesis should not be read literally, though its off topic a little.

Psa 104:3 - "(KJV) Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:"

Then one is either a miss interpretation of the original, or simply an erroneous translation.

The Book of Sirach: Ben-Sira’s book of wisdom belongs, together with the book of Job, a number of the Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and the Wisdom of Solomon to the Hokmah or wisdom literature of the Hebrews. And it is in the book of Sirach, where it is said that Ezekiel describes the Cherubs.

I cannot see King David leaving his son Solomon a some of Gold for the creation of ‘CLOUDS’ which you seem to believe are the representations of the Chariots of God. But for the representation of the winged creatures [The Cherubs] which spread their wings and cover the ark of the covenant of the Lord.

So I will continues to accept Psalms 18: 10; over 104:3.

I have also seen where Ezekiel had hidden the secret of the image in which the cherubs were depicted, and also, where in the Scriptures, the Ark of the covenant, on the lid of which are the two lesser cherubs, is today.

 

[Brickjectivity]

...Then one is either a miss interpretation of the original, or simply an ...

One says A and the other B. Follow the advice of Gideons dad. Let it defend itself if it be literally true. If its not literally true then I will not press the issue.

 

[DPMartin]

^ rarely will someone find so much ignorance and so much sloppiness packed so loosely in an OP.

that's a big Amen

the "simple man" might be wise to keep it simple.

 

[Brickjectivity]

that's a big Amen

the "simple man" might be wise to keep it simple.

I think Jays criticism is apt, but its just a forum post scratched out on a cell phone not put into publishable format. It succeeded in its purpose of getting more ideas from other people. I did say that was the purpose of the thread. Much as I like RF its not a good publishing medium.

 

[The Anointed]

One says A and the other B. Follow the advice of Gideons dad. Let it defend itself if it be literally true. If its not literally true then I will not press the issue.

Please present biblical support for your belief that a cloud is the chariot of God.

Psalms 18: 10; He rode on a cherub.....He made darkness his covering around him, his canopy thick clouds and dark with water.

Biblical support...….. King David supplied the Gold for the making of the representations of God Chariot, the lesser winged creatures on the lid of the covenant box, which was to be kept in the Holy of Holies within the Temple of Solomon beneath the outstretched wings of the two greater Cherubs.

The two greater Cherubs were taken in the fall of Jerusalem by the Babylonian King, Nebuchadnezzar, with the destruction of Jerusalem, the temple, and the exile to Babylon. The gold was stripped off the greater Cherubs and the olive wood bodies which had been overlaid with gold, were abandoned in the desert.

But before the attack, the ark of the covenant was hidden by Jeremiah, in the spot where it remains to this day.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I cannot see King David leaving his son Solomon a some of Gold for the creation of ‘CLOUDS’ which you seem to believe are the representations of the Chariots of God.

Sorry I did not notice this earlier. Its not that I think clouds are this or that but that the two Psalms (18:10 104:3) referred to contradict literally others and cannot show a literal Genesis. We got to this point through the below comment

Brichjectivity wrote...….The quote seems not non-literal interpretation but rather a redefinition of sky to mean galaxy, and it seems far fetched to me to have to go to such lengths as redefining firmament to refer to the entire galaxy

The Anointed.........Psalms 148: 4; KJV 4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.5 Let the...

This was your post with quotes from Psalms about the heavens and galaxies but which made no final sense to me since galaxies were not mentioned. Then we disagreed about the literalness of Psalms, and I brought up a verse that contradicted one you quoted. The two above about clouds.

...But before the attack, the ark of the covenant was hidden by Jeremiah, in the spot where it remains to this day...

Seems this is not helping with evidences of non-literal Genesis, probably because Genesis is no longer in it. There is no harm in taking a break. The location of the Ark is on Mt. Ararat but is off limits for anyone to visit, or the other Ark is hidden, too. This does not really deal with the subject. The words of Genesis appear non-literal. Psalms and Jeremiah cannot change it.

 

[DPMartin]

I think Jays criticism is apt, but its just a forum post scratched out on a cell phone not put into publishable format. It succeeded in its purpose of getting more ideas from other people. I did say that was the purpose of the thread. Much as I like RF its not a good publishing medium.

excuses or no, its easier to consume and digest a piece of pie rather then the whole pie in the face.

 

[The Anointed]

Sorry I did not notice this earlier. Its not that I think clouds are this or that but that the two Psalms (18:10 104:3) referred to contradict literally others and cannot show a literal Genesis. We got to this point through the below comment
This was your post with quotes from Psalms about the heavens and galaxies but which made no final sense to me since galaxies were not mentioned. Then we disagreed about the literalness of Psalms, and I brought up a verse that contradicted one you quoted. The two above about clouds.

Seems this is not helping with evidences of non-literal Genesis, probably because Genesis is no longer in it. There is no harm in taking a break. The location of the Ark is on Mt. Ararat but is off limits for anyone to visit, or the other Ark is hidden, too. This does not really deal with the subject. The words of Genesis appear non-literal. Psalms and Jeremiah cannot change it.

Brickjectivity wrote...……… Sorry I did not notice this earlier. Its not that I think clouds are this or that but that the two Psalms (18:10 104:3) referred to contradict literally others and cannot show a literal Genesis. We got to this point through the below comment

This was your post with quotes from Psalms about the heavens and galaxies but which made no final sense to me since galaxies were not mentioned. Then we disagreed about the literalness of Psalms, and I brought up a verse that contradicted one you quoted. The two above about clouds.

The Anointed...……. Don't bother to put your spin on What has already been said on this subject, the browzers are intelligent people they can read for themselves.

Brickjectivity wrote...…. Seems this is not helping with evidences of non-literal Genesis, probably because Genesis is no longer in it. There is no harm in taking a break. The location of the Ark is on Mt. Ararat but is off limits for anyone to visit, or the other Ark is hidden, too. This does not really deal with the subject. The words of Genesis appear non-literal. Psalms and Jeremiah cannot change it.

The Anointed...…. If there are any remains of Noah's ark, they may possibly be found on Mt Ararat, and the ark of the covenant, where, upon the lid are the winged cherubs which are representations of God's chariots, remains, today where it was hidden by Jeremiah.

The words of Genesis do not appear non-literal to me. I believe that the record of Adams descendants is literal, I believe that the story of Abraham being promised the land of Canaan, which was the legal inheritance of Shem, and not of Canaan the son of Ham.

I believe that Sodom and Gomorra were destroyed because of the wickedness, which Jesus verified was a literal event.

I believe that there was a literal flood in Noah's day which was recorded as a world wide flood by those who lived in the known civilized world of their day.

I believe that 430 years to the day, after God had made his first covenant with Abraham and promised him all the land of Canaan if he would leave his father and travel to the land of his inheritance, his descendants left the land of Egypt and headed toward the promised kingdom.

In fact I believe the book of Genesis, is to be taken literally.

​

 

[Brickjectivity]

Brickjectivity wrote...……… Sorry I did not notice this earlier. Its not that I think clouds are this or that but that the two Psalms (18:10 104:3) referred to contradict literally others and cannot show a literal Genesis. We got to this point through the below comment

This was your post with quotes from Psalms about the heavens and galaxies but which made no final sense to me since galaxies were not mentioned. Then we disagreed about the literalness of Psalms, and I brought up a verse that contradicted one you quoted. The two above about clouds.

The Anointed...……. Don't bother to put your spin on What has already been said on this subject, the browzers are intelligent people they can read for themselves.

Brickjectivity wrote...…. Seems this is not helping with evidences of non-literal Genesis, probably because Genesis is no longer in it. There is no harm in taking a break. The location of the Ark is on Mt. Ararat but is off limits for anyone to visit, or the other Ark is hidden, too. This does not really deal with the subject. The words of Genesis appear non-literal. Psalms and Jeremiah cannot change it.

The Anointed...…. If there are any remains of Noah's ark, they may possibly be found on Mt Ararat, and the ark of the covenant, where, upon the lid are the winged cherubs which are representations of God's chariots, remains, today where it was hidden by Jeremiah.

The words of Genesis do not appear non-literal to me. I believe that the record of Adams descendants is literal, I believe that the story of Abraham being promised the land of Canaan, which was the legal inheritance of Shem, and not of Canaan the son of Ham.

I believe that Sodom and Gomorra were destroyed because of the wickedness, which Jesus verified was a literal event.

I believe that there was a literal flood in Noah's day which was recorded as a world wide flood by those who lived in the known civilized world of their day.

I believe that 430 years to the day, after God had made his first covenant with Abraham and promised him all the land of Canaan if he would leave his father and travel to the land of his inheritance, his descendants left the land of Egypt and headed toward the promised kingdom.

In fact I believe the book of Genesis, is to be taken literally.

​

This thread then is not going to work well for you, because it disagrees. Its about the evidences that Genesis is non-literal, begins with a list and asks for more ideas.