Non-existence vs an unknown afterlife

[Mock Turtle]

Being bit of a risk-taker, I would choose option 2, as, like many, I tend to be curious and open to new things, so would expect something of value to come from such if not to whatever the 'next me' became then to 'next others'. Can't really conceive of such an existence though.

 

[Heyo]

This is just something I've been pondering lately. Imagine that on your deathbed, the Grim Reaper appears to you and offers you a choice:

Option 1. is that your death will result in the complete cessation of your consciousness. You may have left a mark on the world and be remembered by your loved ones but you effectively cease to exist.

Option 2. is that you pass on into the afterlife. However, the Reaper won't tell you what the afterlife entails. You're stepping into the unknown if you take this option.


Which would you choose and why?


Just as a note, I know that some people will be tempted to say something along the lines of, "Well I know what's going to happen after I die." For the sake of this thread please play along and assume that your choice is between non-existence and an entirely unknown afterlife.

I don't believe in an afterlife or a "grim reaper". There is no reason to do so and all evidence points to an end of consciousness at the end of life.

But if a "grim reaper" appears (and I can convince myself that it's not a hallucination), I already know that that part of my belief is false. And given the option for an other adventure, I'd take it.

The "grim reaper"

 

[ChristineM]

However, you could change your mind later.

I doubt it, i im happy to know that my atoms may go towards creating new life

 

[ChristineM]

I don't believe in an afterlife or a "grim reaper". There is no reason to do so and all evidence points to an end of consciousness at the end of life.

But if a "grim reaper" appears (and I can convince myself that it's not a hallucination), I already know that that part of my belief is false. And given the option for an other adventure, I'd take it.

The "grim reaper"

I prefer this guy

Horse called Binky and his granddaughter is called Susan

 

[Heyo]

I prefer this guy

View attachment 41806

Horse called Binky and his granddaughter is called Susan

Nah, too traditional. (Though Binky and Susan and his love for cats defy that first impression.)
I like how Gaiman subverts expectations and tells us that Death is not as we think she is. (Though, again, Pretchett does it also later.)

 

[Roguish]

Which would you choose and why?

A ponderous question, this, and a scary one.

I'll step into the unknown... because I'm more curious than afraid.

I love surprises, personally

if there's another adventure waiting for me after this one, I'm up for it.

I'm with the adventurous folk.

I would continue to exist because existence is fun for me.

I’d definitely roll the dice with option 2.

I would likely choose the continuance.

Number two for 200 Alex.

A million times, this.

I doubt that any of you understand the terrible risk involved.

I'm inclined to go for option 1. I'm very much a pessimist and an unknown afterlife just holds too many nightmarish possibilities for my liking! Whether or not eternal life would be tolerable would almost certainly depend on what that life was like.

I think I would choose the afterlife, but that would be a bit nerve-racking as if it turns out to be really bad, there is no way out.

I still have the same sentiments as you do about living forever, as forever is a long time, and what if we don't like it? There is no return ticket from the afterlife.

"Nightmarish" (Erebus) is just the right word. Of course Paradise is also possible in principle, but the trouble is that a nightmarish afterlife is not impossible. "No way out" (Scott C.) is another phrase that properly evokes the sense of terrible risk.

I’ll take the red pill and find out how deep the rabbit hole goes.

No, you are already in the rabbit hole, and very deep down too.
The red pill triggers your ascent -- your tortuous ascent -- back out of the rabbit hole.
Without the red pill, you'll never ever make it back out:
the walls are steep and slippery, and you don't even know which way is up.
On the other hand,
if you want to go farther down the rabbit hole, take the blue pill.
But seriously -- DON'T.
You *don't* want to find out what's down there.
If you think you do, know that curiosity
is what brought stuck down here in the first place.

That depends on whether the decision was irreversible or not. If the choice was binding for eternity, I choose unconsciousness. It's simple risk management - comparing the cost of being in error with choice A to the cost of opting for choice B if it turns out to be an error. That is, the cost of missing out on eternal bliss is acceptable, but the cost of eternal regret is not. This is not a gamble one should take, so opt for unconsciousness and refuse the bet.

A grim analysis, but correct within the limits of the OP's thought experiment.

I would choose Option 2, since (a) I would not want to cease to exist, and (b) this life has been hell so the afterlife could not be much worse, (c) I kinda sorta trust God that it will be much better than this world, and (d) I don't have problem with unknowns.

What if you could be tricked into violating God's Laws, so that His Promise won't come true for you? What I mean is, what if you could be tricked into believing that you are living life in a way that will earn you a good (enough) afterlife, but in fact you were deceived by an agent who intended to trap you into a pretty *bad* afterlife?

As a side note, in my religion we have been told why we have not been told more about the afterlife.

Interesting. Can you share the reason?

Since the soul is immortal and everyone had one, how could anyone opt out?

That's interesting. I do not believe the soul is necessarily immortal.

If by Soul we mean Self-Consciousness, then indeed eternal immortality is not a given. Of course the Soul survives death of the natural body, and then reincarnates in some world or other, in some form or other, depending on its inclinations, tendencies, and fears. But if Self-Consciousness was extinguished while the natural body was still alive, this cycle ends. We might therefore say that the Soul is immortal for as long as it doesn't pursue its own end, to the very end.

But since there is no time as we know it in this world, when we die and go to the spiritual world we won't be thinking '"Sheesh, when is this going to end?" as we sometimes think in this world.

True. It is quite possible to enter an afterlife where such thoughts -- or any thoughts -- do not occur.

If only there was such a choice , but if there is an afterlife there is and we will not have a choice whether we continue to exist or not.

No, there is a choice, in the sense that in this life, you can pursue the cessation of self-consciousness. If cessation is attained before your natural body perishes, you will certainly avoid a conscious afterlife. This is the OP's option 1.

 

[Trailblazer]

Can't really conceive of such an existence though.

I cannot conceive of it either yet I know it exists.
I too am a risk taker. I should be dead by now the way I ride my bike constantly in such dangerous conditions.

 

[Trailblazer]

I doubt it, i im happy to know that my atoms may go towards creating new life

That will happen too.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I doubt that any of you understand the terrible risk involved.

You're right... I don't understand it, at all. My best guess is that no one does, because last I checked, there was no verifiable evidence pointing to an afterlife existing AT ALL, let alone KNOWING what it consists of.

Let me guess... YOU have a better idea than the rest of us, do you? You must believe that you do... otherwise how could you possibly even hint at the idea of risk? If you know nothing (which I assume you do), then you wouldn't even know if there were any risk, or what "risk" would even entail. The best first question I can think of is: A risk to WHAT?

 

[Thief]

This is just something I've been pondering lately. Imagine that on your deathbed, the Grim Reaper appears to you and offers you a choice:

Option 1. is that your death will result in the complete cessation of your consciousness. You may have left a mark on the world and be remembered by your loved ones but you effectively cease to exist.

Option 2. is that you pass on into the afterlife. However, the Reaper won't tell you what the afterlife entails. You're stepping into the unknown if you take this option.


Which would you choose and why?


Just as a note, I know that some people will be tempted to say something along the lines of, "Well I know what's going to happen after I die." For the sake of this thread please play along and assume that your choice is between non-existence and an entirely unknown afterlife.

non-existence can be described as.....the grave

no one will hear you screaming

 

[Thief]

btw.....I've been visited by the Reaper
on more than one occasion

what a practical Joker

 

[Nakosis]

I doubt that any of you understand the terrible risk involved.
.

What risk is there to existence? Non-existence?
What are you afraid of?

 

[Roguish]

What risk is there to existence? Non-existence?
What are you afraid of?

Non-existence carries no risks, of course.
As for existence, the worst risk (by far) is of getting stuck --
of not finding your way back out.

And this isn't just a matter of being tempted into staying --
that wouldn't be so bad,
since temptation brings along its own cure,
and will make you change your ways, sooner or later.

The problem is rather, that there are agents afoot
who deceive you into behaving in ways
that you think are harmless, enjoyable, or "right",
while actually you are digging your own grave.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

non-existence can be described as.....the grave

no one will hear you screaming

Wouldn't "non-existence" be simply no longer existing at all? As in... there is not only nothing to scream about, but nothing left of you to do the screaming.

I'm thinking you're letting your ego fall into the trap that so many people often fall into - and that is thinking that there is no possible way that the universe at large would simply let your consciousness drop out of existence. If I had to guess, you probably honestly do feel that even in "non-existence" there would be some "part" of you thinking, feeling, reacting, etc. Which means you don't even grasp the concept in the slightest.

 

[Thief]

Wouldn't "non-existence" be simply no longer existing at all? As in... there is not only nothing to scream about, but nothing left of you to do the screaming.

I'm thinking you're letting your ego fall into the trap that so many people often fall into - and that is thinking that there is no possible way that the universe at large would simply let your consciousness drop out of existence. If I had to guess, you probably honestly do feel that even in "non-existence" there would be some "part" of you thinking, feeling, reacting, etc. Which means you don't even grasp the concept in the slightest.

how about......the ability to say.....I AM!

and no one answers

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

how about......the ability to say.....I AM!

and no one answers

Still not getting it, I see... how quaint.

 

[QuestioningMind]

A ponderous question, this, and a scary one.











I doubt that any of you understand the terrible risk involved.





"Nightmarish" (Erebus) is just the right word. Of course Paradise is also possible in principle, but the trouble is that a nightmarish afterlife is not impossible. "No way out" (Scott C.) is another phrase that properly evokes the sense of terrible risk.



No, you are already in the rabbit hole, and very deep down too.
The red pill triggers your ascent -- your tortuous ascent -- back out of the rabbit hole.
Without the red pill, you'll never ever make it back out:
the walls are steep and slippery, and you don't even know which way is up.
On the other hand,
if you want to go farther down the rabbit hole, take the blue pill.
But seriously -- DON'T.
You *don't* want to find out what's down there.
If you think you do, know that curiosity
is what brought stuck down here in the first place.



A grim analysis, but correct within the limits of the OP's thought experiment.



What if you could be tricked into violating God's Laws, so that His Promise won't come true for you? What I mean is, what if you could be tricked into believing that you are living life in a way that will earn you a good (enough) afterlife, but in fact you were deceived by an agent who intended to trap you into a pretty *bad* afterlife?



Interesting. Can you share the reason?




If by Soul we mean Self-Consciousness, then indeed eternal immortality is not a given. Of course the Soul survives death of the natural body, and then reincarnates in some world or other, in some form or other, depending on its inclinations, tendencies, and fears. But if Self-Consciousness was extinguished while the natural body was still alive, this cycle ends. We might therefore say that the Soul is immortal for as long as it doesn't pursue its own end, to the very end.



True. It is quite possible to enter an afterlife where such thoughts -- or any thoughts -- do not occur.



No, there is a choice, in the sense that in this life, you can pursue the cessation of self-consciousness. If cessation is attained before your natural body perishes, you will certainly avoid a conscious afterlife. This is the OP's option 1.

I doubt that any of you understand the terrible risk involved.

Why do you imagine there's a risk?

 

[Heyo]

Wouldn't "non-existence" be simply no longer existing at all? As in... there is not only nothing to scream about, but nothing left of you to do the screaming.

I'm thinking you're letting your ego fall into the trap that so many people often fall into - and that is thinking that there is no possible way that the universe at large would simply let your consciousness drop out of existence. If I had to guess, you probably honestly do feel that even in "non-existence" there would be some "part" of you thinking, feeling, reacting, etc. Which means you don't even grasp the concept in the slightest.

The best way to imagine non existence after death, is to remember the non existence before birth/conception.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

The best way to imagine non existence after death, is to remember the non existence before birth/conception.

"Remember" - yep. Have 'em try.

 

[syo]

Option 1. is that your death will result in the complete cessation of your consciousness. You may have left a mark on the world and be remembered by your loved ones but you effectively cease to exist.

Option 2. is that you pass on into the afterlife. However, the Reaper won't tell you what the afterlife entails. You're stepping into the unknown if you take this option.

Neither.