Non-Disabled People: When Can We Be Equal ?

[Paranoid Android]

I am writing this to ask a question of non-disabled people.

We are not equal. In the United States of America, the Counstitution gurantees that ALL people will be equal. That means, if you are able to work, in how you are treated, under the law we are supposed to be treated the same. Yet, for the disabled, things are not equal. If you look at the rate of people working and hired, many disabled people are not working. Despite having the skills, the education, the experience we are not hired. Instead, we are forced to live on Social Security to fund ourselves. This means for an average person at the minimum they receive $ 500 a month.
In addition, we are forced to live in run down, dangerous areas. The best areas are, in effect, reserved for you. Subsidized Housing is often drug filled dwellings, in poor, run down areas.
How, if we are American citizens, can we live like this ? Do you realize you have advantages and PRIVLEDGES that we can not ( although we want to) take advantage of ? How do you justify this ?

 

[oldbadger]

Hi.......... I am an 'able bodied' person, if slightly aged, but you have posted this thread in 'one on one debates', so I don't know if I am allowed to take part in it. I'll wait to see if any can respond........

 

[Skwim]

I am writing this to ask a question of non-disabled people.

We are not equal. In the United States of America, the Counstitution gurantees that ALL people will be equal.

I know that it says everyone will have equal protection of the law, and that "quality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex," but that's about it. Did you have something else in mind?

 

[Paranoid Android]

I know that it says everyone will have equal protection of the law, and that "quality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex," but that's about it. Did you have something else in mind?

Yes. Under the Americans with Disabilities Act, passed in 1990, we were supposed to be no longer denied jobs. However, in the year 2015, 25 years after the Act passed, we still do not have the jobs at the same rate of non-disabled people. When are the rates of hiring for disabled people supposed to be equal to the rates for non-disabled people ?

 

[Skwim]

Hi.......... I am an 'able bodied' person, if slightly aged, but you have posted this thread in 'one on one debates', so I don't know if I am allowed to take part in it. I'll wait to see if any can respond........

Yes. Under the Americans with Disabilities Act, passed in 1990, we were supposed to be no longer denied jobs. However, in the year 2015, 25 years after the Act passed, we still do not have the jobs at the same rate of non-disabled people. When are the rates of hiring for disabled people supposed to be equal to the rates for non-disabled people ?

My guess is that some of the disabilities simply disqualify some people from some jobs. And that being the case, I don't see the two rates ever being equal.

 

[Paranoid Android]

My guess is that some of the disabilities simply disqualify some people from some jobs. And that being the case, I don't see the two rates ever being equal.

I realize that. But why, for instance, can't a wheel chair bound person work a computer. If memory serves me correctly, his disability is in walking. It does NOT have anything to do with his hands. Why, then using this as an example, won't he be hired by industry to work a job word processing ? I can quote from numerous example where they have bee discriminated against. Again, my question is why ?

 

[oldbadger]

Yes. Under the Americans with Disabilities Act, passed in 1990, we were supposed to be no longer denied jobs. However, in the year 2015, 25 years after the Act passed, we still do not have the jobs at the same rate of non-disabled people. When are the rates of hiring for disabled people supposed to be equal to the rates for non-disabled people ?

Do you think that a person who is disabled by an inner-ear balance problem should be given a job as a rigger on a skyscraper if he/she applies for it?

Do you think that Health and Safety at Work is important?
Do you think that a person who is disabled to the extent of a low intelligence quotient should be given a job as a surgeon?
What exactly is your problem?

 

[Paranoid Android]

Do you think that a person who is disabled by an inner-ear balance problem should be given a job as a rigger on a skyscraper if he/she applies for it?

Do you think that Health and Safety at Work is important?
Do you think that a person who is disabled to the extent of a low intelligence quotient should be given a job as a surgeon?
What exactly is your problem?

My problem, Sir, is people with disabilities whose disability DOES not affect there habits often DO NOT get the job. I will now answer your questions.

First, a person with an inner ear-balance problem will have a problem standing and keeping his balance. He, like a wheel chair bound worker, should not work in a skyscraper. Most likely, he would avoid jobs that require a fine sense of balance, as he knows this is his disability. He CAN work, if he has the necessary skills and experience, as a security guard. In the skyscraper job, if he was so foolish and illogic to apply for it, he should not receive the job.

Second, the person with a low intelligent quotient ( and it's questionable if this is a disability. If he had an intellectual disability, then he has) COULD work as a surgeon. People, including yourself, probably do not score as high on an I.Q test as Stephen Hawkings, a disabled Physicist in England. However, you are probably ill educated on disability issues, so you get a pass on it. IF he was intellectually disabled, he COULD not work as a surgeon, because he would be developmentally disabled. It would be like hiring a 10 year old, intellectually, as President. Still, he COULD work as a janitor.

Have I answered your questions, Sir ?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

My problem, Sir, is people with disabilities whose disability DOES not affect there habits often DO NOT get the job. I will now answer your questions.

That is very true. Being on a cane or wheelchair can make you a "liability," and I have heard unemployment advisors suggest that if it is at all possible for you to go without the cane, do not take it with you to an interview.
If socializing is a deficit, then any and every job, no matter your ability to do them, becomes a challenge to get. And if you have to fake a smile, it shows.
People with physical disabilities, mental illness, and mental deficits are still marginalized in society. It definitely hurts those individuals, and it is most definitely societies loss, because within those groups lies some very capable, very intelligent, and hard working people.

 

[Paranoid Android]

That is very true. Being on a cane or wheelchair can make you a "liability," and I have heard unemployment advisors suggest that if it is at all possible for you to go without the cane, do not take it with you to an interview.
If socializing is a deficit, then any and every job, no matter your ability to do them, becomes a challenge to get. And if you have to fake a smile, it shows.
People with physical disabilities, mental illness, and mental deficits are still marginalized in society. It definitely hurts those individuals, and it is most definitely societies loss, because within those groups lies some very capable, very intelligent, and hard working people.

Thank you. I think this is an ancient fallacy that we need to get over. If we can change it, then disabled people will fell like Americans and will not be angry and hurt like they are. I would not have had to start Dementheology. We want to be working, taxes paying Americans. We do not want to live in torn up, economically depressed cities nor do we want to receive aid from the government. We want to be Americans, instead of because of these challenges to wonder if our Counstitution is really true.

 

[oldbadger]

My problem, Sir, is people with disabilities whose disability DOES not affect there habits often DO NOT get the job. I will now answer your questions.

Second, the person with a low intelligent quotient ( and it's questionable if this is a disability.

Have I answered your questions, Sir ?

Well, you answered..............
So you don't think that a person with a low IQ has a disability? Let me tell you, if a person cannot go to a bus stop, read a timetable and bus recognition list and get a bus going to the right place, this is a disability. Many societies and countries don't recognise this simple fact because they themselves are backward.

Many companies here focus on employing such disabled people who can do a brilliant job in certain areas,such as trolley collection at supermarkets or tray collection at fast food outlets, and in the UK HR departments give fine focus on job applicants with disabilities to discover whether they can carry out the required duties safely, efficiently and effectively. I was served at our local drug-store recently by a young lady with very short arms and hands with only two fingers on each. At our local supermarket I am often served by a till operator who has cerebral palsy.

The fact remains that companies have to decide whether or not an applicant is suitable for a vacant position, and where a person is being turned away repeatedly they have to decide whether to report companies for discrimination, or to look at their application and approach in case they were causing the selectors worry.

Can I ask you..........what kind of jobs are you seeking, and what, if any, are your disabilities? Maybe there are members who can give good advice? I am retired, but when I have rebuilt our home I will be looking to return to work. So...... I am classed as 'aged', but that won't stop me because I want to go back to closing-sales, a job I did part-time in the 70s and with which I paid off a 25 year mortgage in 2 years. I fancy going back to it; my interest was rekindled after meeting a few salesmen at my home in the last few months. I couldn't do business with any of them....... I don't know how they survive being that they were so poor at their work. I will be working within a week of deciding to go back...... ageist or not!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So you don't think that a person with a low IQ has a disability? Let me tell you, if a person cannot go to a bus stop, read a timetable and bus recognition list and get a bus going to the right place, this is a disability.

I've known some people who, according to psychological tests, have a low IQ. They are still very eager and capable workers, but finding work is especially hard when people decide that you're "slow."

 

[Paranoid Android]

Well, you answered..............
So you don't think that a person with a low IQ has a disability? Let me tell you, if a person cannot go to a bus stop, read a timetable and bus recognition list and get a bus going to the right place, this is a disability. Many societies and countries don't recognise this simple fact because they themselves are backward.

Many companies here focus on employing such disabled people who can do a brilliant job in certain areas,such as trolley collection at supermarkets or tray collection at fast food outlets, and in the UK HR departments give fine focus on job applicants with disabilities to discover whether they can carry out the required duties safely, efficiently and effectively. I was served at our local drug-store recently by a young lady with very short arms and hands with only two fingers on each. At our local supermarket I am often served by a till operator who has cerebral palsy.

The fact remains that companies have to decide whether or not an applicant is suitable for a vacant position, and where a person is being turned away repeatedly they have to decide whether to report companies for discrimination, or to look at their application and approach in case they were causing the selectors worry.

Can I ask you..........what kind of jobs are you seeking, and what, if any, are your disabilities? Maybe there are members who can give good advice? I am retired, but when I have rebuilt our home I will be looking to return to work. So...... I am classed as 'aged', but that won't stop me because I want to go back to closing-sales, a job I did part-time in the 70s and with which I paid off a 25 year mortgage in 2 years. I fancy going back to it; my interest was rekindled after meeting a few salesmen at my home in the last few months. I couldn't do business with any of them....... I don't know how they survive being that they were so poor at their work. I will be working within a week of deciding to go back...... ageist or not!

Sir, my disabilities are Multiple Scelrosis, have had a stroke and having Bipolar Disorder. Does this answer your question, Sir ? We want you to change your ATTITUDE and your ACTIONS.

ATTITUDE- You should cease looking at us as victims. We are people. We do not need nor want your pity. Do I pity people because they can't throw a basketball as good as Michael Jordan ? Do I pity them because they make $ 25,000 dollars a year, instead of the MILLION DOLLARS they Michael Jordan used to make ? That you can walk better than I can is like me having a higher reading score than most people. Do I take pride in ? No. It is simply a fact, and that's that.

ACTION- You must start hiring us. You can not chose not to. Why ? Because the people I have in Dementheology won't be standing it. We refuse to be treated like poor beggars. We intend on having the same PRIVLEGES you do, the same RESPONSIBILITES you do. We aren't threatening you, but you will not receive our silence. You will change the unfair things you do or we will protest and cause chaos to your system. Even if you arrest us, we will continue to do it until you change your unfair actions or until you kill all of us. You will have to kill EACH AND EVERYONE OF US.

 

[Iti oj]

I realize that. But why, for instance, can't a wheel chair bound person work a computer. If memory serves me correctly, his disability is in walking. It does NOT have anything to do with his hands. Why, then using this as an example, won't he be hired by industry to work a job word processing ? I can quote from numerous example where they have bee discriminated against. Again, my question is why ?

is he a proficient typer or qualified in anyway ?

 

[Treks]

I used to work with a lady who has multiple sclerosis. She occupies a senior position at that company. Her work involves her mind and powers of observation. She has been there for 25 years. She can get around slowly with a cane, and also has a wheelchair in her car if she needs it. The company made sure it secured a building with a lift so she can access the upper offices if need be, and endeavours to hold staff meetings, etc, on the ground floor where possible. When she is invited to meetings the chair closest to the door is casually left free for her - no big deal is made about it because she doesn't like to draw attention to the fact.

I've also worked with people with intellectual disabilities who have supported employment positions. This is where they go to an employment agency for people with intellectual disability and they help find suitable employment for the individual, and then support them and the employer with regular meetings to make sure everything is working ok. Management has gone to great lengths to support these people with their unique style of working, played to their strengths, and considers how changes will impact them in particular. Sadly, one of the staff has recently been let go, because the company, despite working with this individual for a number of years, is unable to get any valuable contribution from this particular employee. And at the end of the day, the company still has to be sustainable. She will do well in a position that is better suited to her skill set.

I also know a fellow in a wheelchair (I don't know what disability he has, but his legs are not straight and he needs special arm brace crutch thingies to walk around) who works in IT. His customer service and technical skills are awesome. His colleagues are all big into working out and getting fit and buff. I see their posts on Facebook, you know, the 'I ran 10 kms today' posts from those tracking apps you can get. I see the wheelchair guy's posts too, because the app tracks his distance and reports it as wheelchair workouts. If I was in a wheelchair I know my arms wouldn't be strong enough to push me half the distance in double the time it takes him to go twice as far. He also got married a couple of year ago and they are expecting their second baby. <3

I've also lived with two people who have disabilities who, despite my best efforts to point them in the right directions, did not have the inclination to work, or were unable to get into the right headspace. They were content to stay home, mope, feel sorry for themselves and either let me support them for years, or take government benefits.

A lot of it has to do with the individual, I think.

Also, I am (currently) able-bodied and able-minded. I've recently lost my job and over the last four weeks have applied for about 7 jobs. I haven't heard back from any of them. It's a tough market!

 

[Paranoid Android]

is he a proficient typer or qualified in anyway ?

He would be a proficient typer , in my example.

 

[Paranoid Android]

The goal, is to raise our incomes. Once we do that, we'll be empowered financially. Who knows what we'll do once we reach that goal ? But I know one thing; We'll reach that goal or protest, hold strikes and other social chaos. We'll reach it or die, whichever comes first.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

A lot of it has to do with the individual, I think.

To a point, that is true.
But it's also true that those with physical disabilities, mental deficiencies, and certain mental illnesses do have a harder time getting a job. For example, it is estimated that a good chunk of the chronically unemployed have Asperger's - they are also known for being stuck with living with their parents well into adulthood. Walking with a cane does hurt your chances of being employed. Being seen as "slow" is seen as being less capable.
Myself, I'm in a job-skills development program because I struggle with interviews. I can say with confidence I am a better candidate and more qualified, but if I am tossed an odd curve-ball question, I choke on them. I have also come to notice that interviewers tend to not like short, brief, and specific answers, which is something Aspies are known for doing. And of course their is the little facial expressions and body movement, which people tend to not like.
Even with a good attitude, that doesn't change the fact that for nearly a decade I did not get a single job I had to interview for. The job I have now I did have to interview for, my skills with new media were brought up, and I really played up the "I just had surgery on my knee after having a torn ligament and cartilage for a few years, I just got the OK to work, and I am eager to get back to work" card.

 

[Paranoid Android]

To a point, that is true.
But it's also true that those with physical disabilities, mental deficiencies, and certain mental illnesses do have a harder time getting a job. For example, it is estimated that a good chunk of the chronically unemployed have Asperger's - they are also known for being stuck with living with their parents well into adulthood. Walking with a cane does hurt your chances of being employed. Being seen as "slow" is seen as being less capable.
Myself, I'm in a job-skills development program because I struggle with interviews. I can say with confidence I am a better candidate and more qualified, but if I am tossed an odd curve-ball question, I choke on them. I have also come to notice that interviewers tend to not like short, brief, and specific answers, which is something Aspies are known for doing. And of course their is the little facial expressions and body movement, which people tend to not like.
Even with a good attitude, that doesn't change the fact that for nearly a decade I did not get a single job I had to interview for. The job I have now I did have to interview for, my skills with new media were brought up, and I really played up the "I just had surgery on my knee after having a torn ligament and cartilage for a few years, I just got the OK to work, and I am eager to get back to work" card.

That is true. We have to press for our civil and economic rights, Although I think the Long Term Plan will work better.

 

[Skwim]

I realize that. But why, for instance, can't a wheel chair bound person work a computer. If memory serves me correctly, his disability is in walking. It does NOT have anything to do with his hands. Why, then using this as an example, won't he be hired by industry to work a job word processing ?

Even if a disabled person has the skill to do the job perhaps they're not up to those of the more able or more suitable applicant. Happens all the time to able people vying for a job. It isn't any disability that prevents an individual from getting the job (they have no disability) but something else altogether. An employer is always looking at more than just an applicant's skill when filling a position. But let me ask, are you suggesting that the disabled person be given job preference because of his disability?

I can quote from numerous example where they have bee discriminated against.

Unless you have access to the actual reason behind each such discrimination I'm not buying your claim. What I do know is that there is propensity for people denied anything, be it a job, admittance, or position to blame it on something other than a personal failing, and discrimination is an easy rationalization.