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Featured No true Christian?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Harel13, May 23, 2020.

  1. Harel13

    Harel13 Well-Known Member

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    In the last couple of years of my surfing forums and engaging online with people of different religions, I've come to realize that not only are there literally tens of thousands of Christian denominations, but many - if not most of those denominations - appear to deny the Christianity of other denominations and consequently, consider those "outsiders" to be blasphemous sinners condemned to whatever punishment that denomination holds to be the worst possible.

    My question is, why is this so? Why not unify in some sort of way? Lots of people like throwing at us Jews the expression "Two Jews, three opinions" - but in the end, we're all Jews, for better or for worse. It doesn't seem to me that the same can be said of Christians. If I'm wrong, please correct me. If I'm right, I'd be happy to hear why this is so.
     
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  2. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    I consider "two Jews, three opinions" a badge of honor.

    Unlike those heretics from Islam and Christianity, Jewish people tend not to claim that they know everything important about God. Their culture is better at humility and worshipping God. Instead of arrogance and worshipping their church and Scripture and prophet.

    Tom
     
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  3. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    No true Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, agnostics, Baha'is, nor Scotsmen.
     
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  4. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member
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    I find that to be an exception more than a rule.
     
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  5. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    Being a Jew though not practicing Judaism, the stereotype about opinions is in my experience accurate.

    As to the division in Christianity, the lower self, the ego, seeks to differentiate itself from others and proclaim it's superior worth. When that attitude takes root in a religion, sectarianism flourishes as each group believes it's superior to the others who are in utter error.

    But my sense is that is less so today than in the past when denominational differences were much more seriously enforced and underlined. Today my experience is that such doctrinal wars have faded and various churches work more closely together.
     
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  6. Left Coast

    Left Coast Well-Known Member
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    There is no ecclesiological mechanism all Christians agree upon to reconcile their many theological disputes. Particularly among Protestants, the pendulum has so sharply swung toward the preeminence of one's personal interpretation of the Bible rather than submitting to the interpretive authority of any church or denomination, that the chances of all Christians being formally "united" is slim to nil.
     
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  7. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Just rambling here but this is how i see it.?

    Somewhere around 50,000 denominations and well over 200 versions of the bible in English, who knows how many in other languages. Each version is slightly different and each denomination has their favourite bible that they interpret in a way that makes them unique, it seems to be a badge of honour. Of course their interpretation of their favourite bible is the true christian understanding and all other bibles and interpretations must be false because they are right.

    It gets even more interesting when you realise there is no existing copy of the original bible to compare and most of them are derived from the KJV anyway which was compiled by committee from around half a dozen of the most popular bibles of the late 15/early 16 hundreds.

    Now my head hurts
     
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  8. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    Herding Feral Cats is the term that comes to mind....
     
  9. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson ζει

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    I say you're right.
    Two stories:
    • A Jew is shipwrecked on a desert island. Ten years later, a passing ship notices his campfire and stops to rescue him. When the captain comes ashore, the castaway thanks him profusely and offers to give him a tour of the little island. He shows off the weapons he made for hunting, the fire pit where he cooks his food, the synagogue he built for praying in, the hammock where he sleeps. On their way back to the ship, however, the captain notices a second synagogue. “I don’t understand,” the captain asks; “why did you need to build two synagogues?” “Oh,” says the Jew, “this is the synagogue I never go to.”
    • A man arrives at the gates of heaven. St. Peter asks, "Religion?" The man says, "Methodist." St. Peter looks down his list and says, "Go to Room 24, but be very quiet as you pass Room 8." Another man arrives at the gates of heaven. "Religion?" "Lutheran." "Go to Room 18, but be very quiet as you pass Room 8." A third man arrives at the gates. "Religion?" "Presbyterian." "Go to Room 11, but be very quiet as you pass Room 8." The man says, "I can understand there being different rooms for different denominations, but why must I be quiet when I pass Room 8?" St. Peter tells him, "Well, the Baptists are in Room 8, and they think they're the only ones here."
    Why? Possible answers:
    • A Jew can believe any number of false things and still be a Jew.
    • A Christian can believe any number of false things and still claim to be a Christian. Each of the denominations commonly have a set of basic, or foundational, beliefs that they subscribe to. Consequently, a member of a specific denomination or sect cannot believe any number of false beliefs: Each is limited, more or less, in flexibility.
    • What's fun is when you meet Nondenominatialists and find out that even they have limits on their flexibility, with one major source of pride among them being that they aren't denominationalists.
    • Unity among all Christians? LOL! There's no Cat-herder alive man or woman enough to herd them all down the same road. That's why so many look forward to the return of Jesus: not to herd all Christians down the same road, but to take them out of here and get rid of all the others.
     
    #9 Terry Sampson, May 23, 2020
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
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  10. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Yep...... you are right.

    If there is a Christian here that accepts all Christian Creeds, Churches and Cultures, then please will they speak up?

    But I don't think that they will. :)
     
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  11. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson ζει

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    Go check the Baha'i, I think he's over there.
     
  12. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    It's true within denominations, I think.

    (They actually use the same joke for Baptists)
     
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  13. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein All Power to the People!
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    Honestly, the differences between Christians are overblown. The vast majority of Christians hold to the Nicene Creed, and the sects that don't are numerically very tiny. Most of the disagreements are over church governance, forms of worship and the Sacraments, meanwhile the basic theology is much the same.
     
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  14. Salvador

    Salvador RF's Swedenborgian

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    Among the hundreds upon hundreds of Christian denominations I know to exist, I like following True Christianity as understood by Emanuel Swedenborg.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member
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    I don't understand... are you trying to make a problem? Is there ever a "united" position with 2 billion plus people? Or are you looking for just a general consensus?
     
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  16. Salvador

    Salvador RF's Swedenborgian

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    If I may please dare suggest that only one at best of the thousands differing interpretations of the Bible can be totally correct.

     
    #16 Salvador, May 23, 2020
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
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  17. Left Coast

    Left Coast Well-Known Member
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    I'm not trying to make a problem. Do you not believe that denominationalism and the endless schisming in Christianity is problematic for the faith? I didn't make that happen, and I'm certainly not the first person to point it out.

    Christians are divided on:

    Is Jesus God? Is God a Trinity? Is God unchanging? Which books belong in the Bible? Is the Bible inerrant? Is the Bible the sole and final infallible source of doctrinal teaching? Is faith alone necessary for salvation? Is baptism necessary for salvation? What is the proper method for baptism? What is the nature of communion/the Eucharist? Is it literally Christ's body, spiritually his body, or completely metaphorical/symbolic? Who is eligible to partake? Can salvation be lost? Are some people eternally going to hell? Is hell conscious torment or just death? Should women be allowed to be pastors/priests? Should LGBT people be allowed to be pastors/priests? Should churches perform same sex weddings? Is divorce a sin? In all circumstances? Is abortion a sin? In all circumstances? What will the nature of the end times be like?

    I could go on. Y'all are divided every way from Sunday, to the point that many of the above questions are considered dividing lines among the faithful between who's a "true" Christian and who isn't. The OP's inquiry is why that is.
     
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  18. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    There has been enormous efforts through the ecumenical movement and the like to build better relationships between the major denominations within Christianity. Sectarian divisions such as those in Northern Ireland between Protestant and Catholic are the exception rather than the rule throughout the Western World. It used to be said there would never be peace in Ireland, but nowadays conflict and tensions are greatly reduced.

    The internet attracts extremists of all kinds that are not necessary reflective of our communities. There are moderate Christians here too but those with extreme views are over represented.
     
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  19. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    With about 33,000 "Christian" sects, I rather find that to more a rule than an exception.

    It's kind of fun to do a survey of Nobel Prize winners by religion, too. Very surprising results.
     
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  20. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member
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    OK. I don't see it as a problem. I am just trying to locate the OP and the purpose and direction.

    Are there differences? Absolutely.

    Couple of things we have to remember though, because it isn't as cut and dry as a first glance could make it.

    For an example, God told the Jewish people in Jeremiah 4:4 Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, circumcise your hearts, you people of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem... gives it the understanding that there was more to being God's people than just the circumcision of the flesh.

    In other words, there are many people who say "I'm a Christian" but the possibility is that they are Christian in name only. So that alone can create a problem for sure.... it sure did in the Jewish nation.

    So most of the list that you mentioned is of no consequence (as far as division is concerned).

    Take salvation and works. For those who believe in Eph 2:8-9 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast" but they still will have works.

    Someone who believes works are necessary, they will also have works. Will the two meet together? They will in fellowship--and still disagree as to what is necessary in salvation -- but not denying that both are saved since both exercise good works. (There are always exceptions)

    The same with baptism. There are some who believe that it is the infant baptism that is necessary, sprinkling, dunking and then some will say that it is necessary for salvation and others no.

    But when the two (or three) come together, all are baptized in some form or another and the fruit of their lives will give testimony of salvation. They will "break bread" together, and won't deny that the other is saved even though they were baptized differently. (There are always exceptions)

    I can say that, because I have had fellowship and broken bread with the above. Even went to a Coptic service... (WOW, THAT was along service! :)

    You can look at it this way, there are three bedroom 2 bath split plan, all bedrooms on the same side plan, all bedroom in three completely different areas plan... and everyone one likes their house. Different but not "wrong". As long as the foundation is square you can have your house however you like it.

    Like a body, many parts, they look different but still one body.

    Now, that being said, there is still some truth to "some" division but it isn't as common as people think as they just use the old "there are so many denominations" as a mantra because it sounds good (I use to use it when I wasn't a believer in Jesus).

    But like I said, with 2 billion followers it isn't like you are going to get all to live just like Jesus because people are still people. Even Jesus had one who betrayed him after the 70 left him.

    In one retreat in Orlando, Florida, (as I had said before), we had Catholic Priests, Episcopalians, Baptists, Pentecostals, Methodists, Non-denominational, Church of God, Assemblies of God and a few more... we all broke bread together, prayed and worship. No one doubted the other's salvation because we all were in agreement with the foundation. Some of which are:

    1. Man needs a savior
    2. Jesus is the mediator
    3. Jesus was born of a virgin
    4. Jesus died and was raised again
    5. The Blood of Jesus cleanses.\\

    And things like that. (Baptism wasn't mentioned nor was it a dividing factor, works wasn't mentioned nor was it a dividing factor

    I could go on... but maybe you had a more specific question?
     
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