No room for questions in heaven. How will you ask ?

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

I am a member of the Bahai Faith. We believe that there is One God and Many Messengers of God who established many religions over the course of history. We also believe that those Messengers will continue to be sent by God as long as humans exist. I believe Muhammad was one such Messenger but Baha'u'llah is the latest Messenger from God.

View attachment 44272

How do we know when a new messenger is around or even if you or I are such a messenger?

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Because there’s NO duality in heaven

According to who or what and why?

 

[Trailblazer]

That is a cute video, but I was serious when I said:
Heaven for me would be endless cats (cats that never die).
Conversely, hell is cats that die. There is no worse hell for me.

Sex does not hold a candle to cats, Imo.

P.S. I hope God heard what I just posted about endless cats. I am not asking for anything else.
No really, I would be satisfied just to know that my cats and all animals are alive and happy in the spiritual world, even if I never got to see them again. It would be a bonus if I could see them though.
Hear that God?

 

[Trailblazer]

How do we know when a new messenger is around or even if you or I are such a messenger?

That is a really good question. According to my religion, there will be no more Messengers of God till at least the year 2863, which is 1000 years from when Baha'u'llah made His declaration in the Garden of Ridvan. That belief is based upon what Baha'u'llah wrote in His Own Pen:

“Whoso layeth claim to a Revelation direct from God, ere the expiration of a full thousand years, such a man is assuredly a lying impostor. We pray God that He may graciously assist him to retract and repudiate such claim. Should he repent, God will, no doubt, forgive him. If, however, he persisteth in his error, God will, assuredly, send down one who will deal mercilessly with him. Terrible, indeed, is God in punishing.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 346

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

That is a really good question. According to my religion, there will be no more Messengers of God till at least the year 2863, which is 1000 years from when Baha'u'llah made His declaration in the Garden of Ridvan. That belief is based upon what Baha'u'llah wrote in His Own Pen:

“Whoso layeth claim to a Revelation direct from God, ere the expiration of a full thousand years, such a man is assuredly a lying impostor. We pray God that He may graciously assist him to retract and repudiate such claim. Should he repent, God will, no doubt, forgive him. If, however, he persisteth in his error, God will, assuredly, send down one who will deal mercilessly with him. Terrible, indeed, is God in punishing.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 346

Was Baha'Ullah or the Bab before him dealt with mercilessly? Wasn't Jesus also? Thank you for answering the question so nicely. I was curious about the big gaps in messengers in the chart you showed, and then the tiny little gap between the Bab and the Baha'u'llah, was that ever explained or anything as to why Baha'u'llah or Bab should be believed to be Messengers and what they contributed that really differs or expands upon the prior messages, such as the Qur'an for example? Like, why were these two necessary and how are their followers much different from the Muslims which are still practicing and existing to a larger degree and seem to be continuing this Islam without much updating without too much trouble?

 

[Trailblazer]

Was Baha'Ullah or the Bab before him dealt with mercilessly? Wasn't Jesus also?

Yes, Jesus and all the Messengers of God suffered greatly, but at the hands of humans, not at the hands of God.
Jesus chose to suffer and ultimately sacrifice Himself for the sake of humanity, God did not force Him to do do.

Thank you for answering the question so nicely. I was curious about the big gaps in messengers in the chart you showed, and then the tiny little gap between the Bab and the Baha'u'llah

That is another good question, obviously you are a very thoughtful person.

The reason for the short gap is that the primary mission of the Bab was to announce the coming of Baha'u'llah and prepare the way for Baha'u'llah. In that way the Bab can be compared to John the Baptist, who came to announce the coming of Jesus. The difference is that John the Baptist was not a Messenger of God in his own right as was the Bab. Another difference is that the Bab actually established His own religion during his short mission on earth (nine years), before he was martyred. The Babi religion was intended to be a transition between Islam and the Baha'i Faith, and the Bab wrote a multitude of scriptures, including Laws that were less harsh than Laws of the Qur'an yet harsher than the Laws Baha'u'llah later revealed.

was that ever explained or anything as to why Baha'u'llah or Bab should be believed to be Messengers and what they contributed that really differs or expands upon the prior messages, such as the Qur'an for example? Like, why were these two necessary and how are their followers much different from the Muslims which are still practicing and existing to a larger degree and seem to be continuing this Islam without much updating without too much trouble?

These are more good questions. These are big subjects, and you have three separate questions:

1. Why should the Bab and Baha'u'llah be believed?
2. What did they contribute that really differs or expands upon the prior messages?
3. Why were the Bab and Baha'u'llah necessary?

I could answer all these questions but I do not want to get off the topic of this thread, so a new thread would need to be started in order for me to answer them. Feel free to start a new thread if you want to and I will try to answer those questions as time permits.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Because there’s NO duality in heaven

You didn't really answer my two questions at all, there.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Yes, Jesus and all the Messengers of God suffered greatly, but at the hands of humans, not at the hands of God.
Jesus chose to suffer and ultimately sacrifice Himself for the sake of humanity, God did not force Him to do do.

That is another good question, obviously you are a very thoughtful person.

The reason for the short gap is that the primary mission of the Bab was to announce the coming of Baha'u'llah and prepare the way for Baha'u'llah. In that way the Bab can be compared to John the Baptist, who came to announce the coming of Jesus. The difference is that John the Baptist was not a Messenger of God in his own right as was the Bab. Another difference is that the Bab actually established His own religion during his short mission on earth (nine years), before he was martyred. The Babi religion was intended to be a transition between Islam and the Baha'i Faith, and the Bab wrote a multitude of scriptures, including Laws that were less harsh than Laws of the Qur'an yet harsher than the Laws Baha'u'llah later revealed.

These are more good questions. These are big subjects, and you have three separate questions:

1. Why should the Bab and Baha'u'llah be believed?
2. What did they contribute that really differs or expands upon the prior messages?
3. Why were the Bab and Baha'u'llah necessary?

I could answer all these questions but I do not want to get off the topic of this thread, so a new thread would need to be started in order for me to answer them. Feel free to start a new thread if you want to and I will try to answer those questions as time permits.

I made it! You can also answer these there, but they may be repeated or found inside the list I created for the thread!

Questions for knowledgeable Bahai / followers of Baha'u'llah

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

You didn't really answer my two questions at all, there.

I feel that my questions were also not answered here as well. I don't understand what this thread is based on or even wants from people.

 

[Trailblazer]

I made it! You can also answer these there, but they may be repeated or found inside the list I created for the thread!

Questions for knowledgeable Bahai / followers of Baha'u'llah

You sure made it! Thanks for all the questions. I am not sure when I will have time to answer them all, but I am a compulsive person so I will answer them as soon as humanly possible. Meanwhile I just put the word out to the other Baha'is who are frequent posters on this forum, so you will probably be getting some responses.

 

[Ancient Soul]

How do you know I am misleading anyone? Do you think you know more about how to get to heaven than the Baha'i Faith?

And you know more than both Jesus and Baha'u'llah put together about what it means to be spiritual?
Why should millions of people reject what they said and wrote and follow you?

What are these spiritual answers you speak of? How will they help people become more moral and righteous?

I am not claiming to be spiritual, but who are you to judge my character? You just knocked yourself down a notch by saying what you did.

People lead others astray by making false "spiritual" claims on how to get to "Heaven" based upon their FAITH based man made religious beliefs, that are FAITH based because there is no proof that any of it is true. That's why they are called FAITH based religions, because none of it has any proof to back it up. So they should NOT be going around telling people the WRONG way to get to Heaven and ruin their chances of entering.

Yes, Jesus and this Baha'u'llah teach nothing truly spiritual. We already had this go-round several months ago and you came up with NOTHING that met even the basics.

And I'm not judging your character. YOU made this comment on what your mythology claims is being "spiritual":

Qualities such as love, mercy, kindness, truth and justice, one and all being expressions of the higher nature of man. Every good habit, every noble quality belongs to man’s spiritual nature.

And I used your own "spiritual standards" by making the following statement and question:

"First off, they are sooo not "spiritual qualities", they are just the usual placebos spiritually clueless men write down because they never have any true spiritual answers to give, so make up silly stuff like that.

But that aside, how come those "qualities" don't manifest themselves in your posts?

 

[Ancient Soul]

Sat Chit Ananda = Being Awareness Bliss

In this context:
Being is our True Self
Awareness is our True Perception
Bliss is our True Joy

Thanks.

I looked up "Sat Chit Ananda" and while I can easily attain the state of unlimited pure consciousness and knowledge, and have been able to reach that state most of my life, but I just don't see where the "bliss" part fits in. To me it's just a self indulging distraction, so I don't understand why someone would want to ruin the experience of being in pure consciousness and acquiring spiritual understanding. I think it would be like an unnecessary juggling act. Therefore, I'm just trying to understand why some Hindu and other similar religions place so much importance upon "bliss".

So could you please tell me why "bliss" is so important to your beliefs?

 

[Trailblazer]

People lead others astray by making false "spiritual" claims on how to get to "Heaven" based upon their FAITH based man made religious beliefs, that are FAITH based because there is no proof that any of it is true. That's why they are called FAITH based religions, because none of it has any proof to back it up. So they should NOT be going around telling people the WRONG way to get to Heaven and ruin their chances of entering.

I asked:

1. How do you know I am misleading anyone? Do you think you know more about how to get to heaven than the Baha'i Faith?
2. And you know more than both Jesus and Baha'u'llah put together about what it means to be spiritual?
3. Why should millions of people reject what they said and wrote and follow you?
4. What are these spiritual answers you speak of? How will they help people become more moral and righteous?

You said:

Yes, Jesus and this Baha'u'llah teach nothing truly spiritual. We already had this go-round several months ago and you came up with NOTHING that met even the basics.

"First off, they are sooo not "spiritual qualities", they are just the usual placebos spiritually clueless men write down because they never have any true spiritual answers to give, so make up silly stuff like that.

So, so far, you have not answered any of my questions.

And now I have another question, based upon what you said above. You said that people lead others astray by making false "spiritual" claims on how to get to "Heaven" based upon their FAITH based man made religious beliefs, that are FAITH based because there is no proof that any of it is true. That's why they are called FAITH based religions, because none of it has any proof to back it up. So they should NOT be going around telling people the WRONG way to get to Heaven and ruin their chances of entering.

My question is this:

5. What is the difference between religious beliefs and your personal beliefs, given:

(a) both are faith-based, and
(b) neither one has any proof to back it up​

 

[Ancient Soul]

People lead others astray by making false "spiritual" claims on how to get to "Heaven" based upon their FAITH based man made religious beliefs, that are FAITH based because there is no proof that any of it is true. That's why they are called FAITH based religions, because none of it has any proof to back it up. So they should NOT be going around telling people the WRONG way to get to Heaven and ruin their chances of entering.

Yes, Jesus and this Baha'u'llah teach nothing truly spiritual. We already had this go-round several months ago and you came up with NOTHING that met even the basics.

And I'm not judging your character. YOU made this comment on what your mythology claims is being "spiritual":



And I used your own "spiritual standards" by making the following statement and question:

"First off, they are sooo not "spiritual qualities", they are just the usual placebos spiritually clueless men write down because they never have any true spiritual answers to give, so make up silly stuff like that.

But that aside, how come those "qualities" don't manifest themselves in your posts?

I asked:

1. How do you know I am misleading anyone? Do you think you know more about how to get to heaven than the Baha'i Faith?
2. And you know more than both Jesus and Baha'u'llah put together about what it means to be spiritual?
3. Why should millions of people reject what they said and wrote and follow you?
4. What are these spiritual answers you speak of? How will they help people become more moral and righteous?

You said:

Yes, Jesus and this Baha'u'llah teach nothing truly spiritual. We already had this go-round several months ago and you came up with NOTHING that met even the basics.

"First off, they are sooo not "spiritual qualities", they are just the usual placebos spiritually clueless men write down because they never have any true spiritual answers to give, so make up silly stuff like that.

So, so far, you have not answered any of my questions.

And now I have another question, based upon what you said above. You said that people lead others astray by making false "spiritual" claims on how to get to "Heaven" based upon their FAITH based man made religious beliefs, that are FAITH based because there is no proof that any of it is true. That's why they are called FAITH based religions, because none of it has any proof to back it up. So they should NOT be going around telling people the WRONG way to get to Heaven and ruin their chances of entering.

My question is this:

5. What is the difference between religious beliefs and your personal beliefs, given:

(a) both are faith-based, and
(b) neither one has any proof to back it up​

Geez...

STILL with the tactics of AVOIDANCE!

I said absolutely nothing about anyone "following" me, that's all just your diversionary tactic to AVOID the issue that you have no proof to back up your beliefs. That's why they are called FAITH based. Oh wait, you probably don't even know what "faith" means. I forgot who I'm posting to.

faith
n
1. strong or unshakeable belief in something, esp without proof or evidence
2. (Theology) a conviction of the truth of certain doctrines of religion, esp when this is not based on reason

So since Baha'i is a FAITH based religion, with no proof to back it up, then it is WRONG for someone to go around leading people astray by telling them how to get to "Heaven" when they have no idea themselves.

 

[Trailblazer]

Geez...

STILL with the tactics of AVOIDANCE!

I avoided nothing but I see you still cannot give me straight answers to my questions.
I asked:

1. How do you know I am misleading anyone? Do you think you know more about how to get to heaven than the Baha'i Faith?
2. And you know more than both Jesus and Baha'u'llah put together about what it means to be spiritual?
3. Why should millions of people reject what they said and wrote and follow you?
4. What are these spiritual answers you speak of? How will they help people become more moral and righteous?

I said absolutely nothing about anyone "following" me, that's all just your diversionary tactic to AVOID the issue that you have no proof to back up your beliefs.

No, what you just used was a diversionary tactic to avoid answering the four questions above.

I told you a long time ago that religious beliefs cannot be proven and that I am not trying to prove my religious beliefs are true so why do you keep pressing the issue? Answer the question or you stand guilty of avoidance.

That's why they are called FAITH based. Oh wait, you probably don't even know what "faith" means. I forgot who I'm posting to.

faith
n
1. strong or unshakeable belief in something, esp without proof or evidence
2. (Theology) a conviction of the truth of certain doctrines of religion, esp when this is not based on reason

So since Baha'i is a FAITH based religion, with no proof to back it up, then it is WRONG for someone to go around leading people astray by telling them how to get to "Heaven" when they have no idea themselves.

I know my beliefs are faith-based, but that does not mean they are not true.

I asked you:
5. What is the difference between religious beliefs and your personal beliefs, given:

(a) both are faith-based, and
(b) neither one has any proof to back it up

So far, you have not answered. A simple answer would suffice. Otherwise I will consider it avoidance.

 

[Ancient Soul]

I avoided nothing but I see you still cannot give me straight answers to my questions.
I asked:

1. How do you know I am misleading anyone? Do you think you know more about how to get to heaven than the Baha'i Faith?
2. And you know more than both Jesus and Baha'u'llah put together about what it means to be spiritual?
3. Why should millions of people reject what they said and wrote and follow you?
4. What are these spiritual answers you speak of? How will they help people become more moral and righteous?

No, what you just used was a diversionary tactic to avoid answering the four questions above.

I told you a long time ago that religious beliefs cannot be proven and that I am not trying to prove my religious beliefs are true so why do you keep pressing the issue? Answer the question or you stand guilty of avoidance.

I know my beliefs are faith-based, but that does not mean they are not true.

I asked you:
5. What is the difference between religious beliefs and your personal beliefs, given:

(a) both are faith-based, and
(b) neither one has any proof to back it up

So far, you have not answered. A simple answer would suffice. Otherwise I will consider it avoidance.

Geez...

STILL with the avoidance tactics.

The issue is YOUR own FAITH based religion. Nothing else.

So again:

Geez...

STILL with the tactics of AVOIDANCE!

I said absolutely nothing about anyone "following" me, that's all just your diversionary tactic to AVOID the issue that you have no proof to back up your beliefs. That's why they are called FAITH based. Oh wait, you probably don't even know what "faith" means. I forgot who I'm posting to.

faith
n
1. strong or unshakeable belief in something, esp without proof or evidence
2. (Theology) a conviction of the truth of certain doctrines of religion, esp when this is not based on reason

So since Baha'i is a FAITH based religion, with no proof to back it up, then it is WRONG for someone to go around leading people astray by telling them how to get to "Heaven" when they have no idea themselves.

 

[Ancient Soul]

How do we know when a new messenger is around or even if you or I are such a messenger?

It's entirely up to TB to decide, and everyone MUST abide by that decision.

 

[stvdv]

To me it's just a self indulging distraction

Making such comment means that you don't understand anything about "Sat Chit Ananda" as it is mentioned in the Hindu Scriptures

I looked up "Sat Chit Ananda" and while I can easily attain the state of unlimited pure consciousness and knowledge, and have been able to reach that state most of my life, but I just don't see where the "bliss" part fits in

What you have experienced must be something different from Sat Chit Ananda as taught in Hindu Scriptures
IF you have reached the state of "pure knowledge" as you claim THEN you should know about "Bliss" too

So could you please tell me why "bliss" is so important to your beliefs?

Because those "two" can't be separated

 

[Trailblazer]

Geez...

STILL with the avoidance tactics.

The issue is YOUR own FAITH based religion. Nothing else.

So again:

What am I avoiding? I admitted I belong to a faith-based religion. Now what?

 

[Ancient Soul]

Making such comment means that you don't understand anything about "Sat Chit Ananda" as it is mentioned in the Hindu Scriptures


What you have experienced must be something different from Sat Chit Ananda as taught in Hindu Scriptures
IF you have reached the state of "pure knowledge" as you claim THEN you should know about "Bliss" too


Because those "two" can't be separated

Well, as always, God has given me a spiritual path that doesn't ever fit the norm. For I can easily attain all the rest of "Sat Chit Ananda" without the "bliss" part.

The only time I felt anything like "bliss" was when God showed me his creation of the physical universe. But to be honest, I don't really know if they were my feelings, or God was also letting me experience how he felt during the process. His energy can get VERY intense at times.

Thanks for your answers, I will have to think about this.