No Religion - Nearly 10 Million Australians.

[Subduction Zone]

Of course one can, that is what a discussion is.

Regards Tony

The mods have called it "debating in a non debate area" when I have done it in the past.

 

[Colt]

The 2021 Census was completed by over 90% of the population and thus returned useful data.

Religion was interesting.

View attachment 64098

I see this is a trend that was foretold, but there will come a time when people realise that Faith is the only way to help humanity.

What are your thoughts?

Regards Tony

There are spiritual people who are not religious. But the world hasn't really hit bottom yet. People generally feel like they don't need God.

 

[Bathos Logos]

It is absolutely a way to help.

Can you admit that it would only help if the person being prayed about knew that the prayers were happening? I mean, this is what the data from studies I have perused do point to after all. Perhaps you have data that shows differently?

 

[Bathos Logos]

What are your thoughts?

My thoughts are that this is only the start of such a trend. The end will very likely be the abandonment of most forms of religious adherence. Your parents can tell you "When you need to affix two boards to one another, use a hammer and nail, or a screw and screw-driver", and they can tell you "There is a God in heaven, watching over you, and keeping tabs on all that you do". Which of those two pieces of information provides the target audience demonstrable help with a problem that can be experienced here on Earth, where that person is most certain to find themselves meting out their existence?

 

[InChrist]

I find that view hard to support from the words of the NT ─

Mark 9:1 And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”

Matthew 10:23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Matthew 16:28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.”

Luke 9:27 But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.”​

And I think the reason it's not mentioned in John, written in the 90s CE, is because it clearly hadn't happened like that.
I expect that if we can't do it for ourselves, we'll get nothing less than we deserve.

Thank you for posting those verses. My view concerns the entire passage and the end time signs Jesus referred to which would precede His coming again and the generation alive at that time. I agree that the particular verses you highlighted did indicate that some of the disciples He was speaking to would see the kingdom of God before they died and three of them did. A few verses later in Matthew it describes how Peter, James, and John had a glimpse of Christ in His glory and kingdom...


Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves; 2 and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. 3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.
Matthew 17:1-3


Anyway, I think we need a Savior. Do you think humans can or will save ourselves from this...

• The world produces about 360 million tons of plastics annually, and up to 12 million tons of it ends up in our oceans each year
• Estimates suggest that by 2050, our oceans will contain more plastic than fish by weight. Already, in some ocean waters’ plastic exceeds plankton by a factor of 6-to-1

• Research suggests the average person swallows up to 68,415 plastic fibers each year just from the plastic dust particles landing on their plates during meals
• The average person also ingests about 100 plastic particles each year from shell fish — remnants of microplastic water pollution

• Tests have revealed bottled water contains on average 325 pieces of microplastic particles per liter — contamination thought to originate from the manufacturing process of the bottles and caps

Do You Have Plastic Inside of You?

That’s just one big problem we have created.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

People generally feel like they don't need God.

That's how I feel since I'm no longer a Christian. I feel like I'm much better off without my belief in and faith in God.

 

[QuestioningMind]

The 2021 Census was completed by over 90% of the population and thus returned useful data.

Religion was interesting.

View attachment 64098

I see this is a trend that was foretold, but there will come a time when people realise that Faith is the only way to help humanity.

What are your thoughts?

Regards Tony

I don't see how faith can reliably lead to any sort of truth. I can have absolute faith that 2+2=5 and you can have absolute faith that 2+2=9 and we can still BOTH be wrong.

 

[Colt]

That's how I feel since I'm no longer a Christian. I feel like I'm much better off without my belief in and faith in God.

There does seem to be a sense of relief in giving up the good fight of faith.

 

[firedragon]

My thoughts are that this is only the start of such a trend. The end will very likely be the abandonment of most forms of religious adherence. Your parents can tell you "When you need to affix two boards to one another, use a hammer and nail, or a screw and screw-driver", and they can tell you "There is a God in heaven, watching over you, and keeping tabs on all that you do". Which of those two pieces of information provides the target audience demonstrable help with a problem that can be experienced here on Earth, where that person is most certain to find themselves meting out their existence?

This trend in modern times began in the late 19th and early 20th century and declined in the latter 20th century. You never know how things will work out in the future. It could be either way.

Also, non-religion/atheism of some nature does not mean Just opposed to ""There is a God in heaven, watching over you, and keeping tabs on all that you do". That's a typical children's view of God you have depicted of a God in heaven, feels above you etc etc, which is not general. Also, deism is not accepted by atheists. There are other forms of theism that does not have any view you hold of this God character. That's a caricature you are painting which for some people is just a straw-man.

There could be a future where most forms of religious adherences reduce or vanish. There also could be other types of religious beliefs in increase. There were atheists a thousand years ago. Many. We just don't have the number or statistical validation. No one knows exactly how many atheists were there and how the statistics fluctuated. Thus, making such predictions are just wishful thinking in my opinion.

 

[Bathos Logos]

This trend in modern times began in the late 19th and early 20th century and declined in the latter 20th century. You never know how things will work out in the future. It could be either way.

I agree and can entirely accept this.

Also, non-religion/atheism of some nature does not mean Just opposed to ""There is a God in heaven, watching over you, and keeping tabs on all that you do". That's a typical children's view of God you have depicted of a God in heaven, feels above you etc etc, which is not general. Also, deism is not accepted by atheists. There are other forms of theism that does not have any view you hold of this God character. That's a caricature you are painting which for some people is just a straw-man.

The use of an over-the-top caricature was intentional. I was trying to draw a line in the sand between relatively mundane/simple items that are yet of relevance to the reality we experience versus items of likely inflated importance that perhaps literally cannot be experienced or corroborated or known for sure, etc. You can easily take two boards, try out nails or screwdrivers and see if your parents were right. But for many articles of faith, they must remain there, in that space of "faith" and you are not given tangible tools and materials to corroborate. You have to simply "follow your heart" or "think about it" or worse "pray about it". That's what I was getting at. And the obvious difference between those two is, I feel, being seen by more and more people as more and more useful, real-world information is capable of being shared by us all.

There could be a future where most forms of religious adherences reduce or vanish. There also could be other types of religious beliefs in increase. There were atheists a thousand years ago. Many. We just don't have the number or statistical validation. No one knows exactly how many atheists were there and how the statistics fluctuated. Thus, making such predictions are just wishful thinking in my opinion.

The interesting difference between now+future and the past tens of thousands of years of human history is the relatively insane speed with which what can be considered basic knowledge, understanding and communication have all increased. The curve on that graph would just suddenly shoot for the stars during the last 50-100 years, honestly - and so unless the future caves in on us and we find ourselves in some post-apocalyptic reality where we're forced to use horse and buggy again and don't have electricity, I don't think a comparison between now and the past is really very valid in terms of what went on - probably especially with respect to religious information and acceptance.

 

[firedragon]

The use of an over-the-top caricature was intentional. I was trying to draw a line in the sand between relatively mundane/simple items that are yet of relevance to the reality we experience versus items of likely inflated importance that perhaps literally cannot be experienced or corroborated or known for sure, etc. You can easily take two boards, try out nails or screwdrivers and see if your parents were right. But for many articles of faith, they must remain there, in that space of "faith" and you are not given tangible tools and materials to corroborate. You have to simply "follow your heart" or "think about it" or worse "pray about it". That's what I was getting at. And the obvious difference between those two is, I feel, being seen by more and more people as more and more useful, real-world information is capable of being shared by us all.

Okay.

The interesting difference between now+future and the past tens of thousands of years of human history is the relatively insane speed with which what can be considered basic knowledge, understanding and communication have all increased. The curve on that graph would just suddenly shoot for the stars during the last 50-100 years, honestly - and so unless the future caves in on us and we find ourselves in some post-apocalyptic reality where we're forced to use horse and buggy again and don't have electricity, I don't think a comparison between now and the past is really very valid in terms of what went on - probably especially with respect to religious information and acceptance.

As I explained, you don't know the numbers. You only have numbers for the past few centuries in reality. No one was comparing the now and the past. YOu cannot compare without statistics.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The mods have called it "debating in a non debate area" when I have done it in the past.

Then let's not have that discussion. The Mods are the RF God's.

I see we should be discussing things and not debating them. We should be trying to figure out what each other thinks, and why they think that, sharing our viewpoints with the goal of reaching some sort of consensus.

How else can the world work? Religion and faith are not going away. People that do not want to believe in God are not going away.

So together we need to make this life fair for all.

Regards Tony

 

[Heyo]

We should be trying to figure out what each other thinks, and why they think that, sharing our viewpoints

I call that a discussion.

We should be trying to figure out what each other thinks, and why they think that, sharing our viewpoints with the goal of reaching some sort of consensus.

I call that a debate.

And then there those exchanges where one (or both) sides want the other to admit they are wrong and change their view to the opposite.
I call that a shouting match.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There are spiritual people who are not religious. But the world hasn't really hit bottom yet. People generally feel like they don't need God.

Yes I also see we have not hit a turning point in the direction humanity needs to turn towards.

It is an interesting trend, interesting because the trend has been foretold, along with the world events.

That is worth discussing, I did not want to put it in a debate, but would have also liked to discuss why many are leaving faiths.

Maybe they are not? Maybe they are just disillusioned where they then choose not to disclose what they truly believe.

Regards Tony

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

There does seem to be a sense of relief in giving up the good fight of faith.

I remember what my life was like when I was a Christian and the years before that, so there is no question in my mind that freeing myself from all the Christian indoctrination I had been subjected to in my life was the best decision that I've ever made for my mental health. For me, abandoning my Christian faith was a matter of survival since I found being a Christian to be a very painful experience that seriously harmed my mental health, which in turn badly affected my physical health. I don't regret my decision to abandon my Christian faith. I can't speak for other ex-Christians on why they left Christianity, but the reason I shared is why I left Christianity.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I call that a discussion.

I call that a debate.

And then there those exchanges where one (or both) sides want the other to admit they are wrong and change their view to the opposite.
I call that a shouting match.

Ha ha, then we can discuss that further as well.

There are definitions and considerations as to what is a debate and as to what is a discussion.

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

If religion wants to win back peoples trust it must bring ‘deeds not words’ to the table.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

My thoughts are that this is only the start of such a trend. The end will very likely be the abandonment of most forms of religious adherence. Your parents can tell you "When you need to affix two boards to one another, use a hammer and nail, or a screw and screw-driver", and they can tell you "There is a God in heaven, watching over you, and keeping tabs on all that you do". Which of those two pieces of information provides the target audience demonstrable help with a problem that can be experienced here on Earth, where that person is most certain to find themselves meting out their existence?

I see the trend is most likely to continue for an unknown time.

I personally consider we need a more mature outlook as to what is God, that humanity does need to find that balance.

I am of the belief that there will be a continued series of world wide convulsions that enable us to consider life in a different way.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If religion wants to win back peoples trust it must bring ‘deeds not words’ to the table.

Indeed that is the only way. That was the way of Abdul'baha.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I don't see how faith can reliably lead to any sort of truth. I can have absolute faith that 2+2=5 and you can have absolute faith that 2+2=9 and we can still BOTH be wrong.

I like to have an open mind about ultimatums, maybe life is more like 1 = 1 = 1 = 1 = 1

Consider the human species. We are many but should be as 1.

Maybe Faith and no Faith are as 1

I am trying to change a black and white mindset.

Maybe black and white are 1

Regards Tony