paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Post #24 paarsurrey
The same way one could say "No-Religion is the opium of the people".
Right, please?
Regards
The same way one could say "No-Religion is the opium of the people".
Right, please?
Regards
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"No-Religion" is the opium of the people?
- Thread starter paarsurrey
- Start date
Altfish
Veteran Member
...And Karl Marx never said that,
Sure, but comparing religion or irreligion to a hard drug is questionable to begin with. It's too often used as an unproductive put-down. I'd throw out the metaphor entirely.
Augustus
…
Atheistic ideologies like Secular Humanism could be described as the opium of the people in the same way that religions have been.
To say "No-Religion is the opium of the people" and have it make sense would really require a much clearer context in which 'no religion' was clearly standing in for irreligious ideologies. Without context it is highly ambiguous even if you assume people will give you then benefit of the doubt in trying to decipher meaning (which they generally won't, they'll just take it absolutely literally
)
No. That does not make logical sense in and of itself.
You would have to define what you mean by "no-religion" before this statement of yours could even be wrong, let alone correct.
Marx was perhaps careless, painting in too broad a stroke with his claim. But at least there was a fairly clear idea of what he meant by religion (mainly Catholic and Protestant Christianity, although I have little doubt that he would gladly include Islaam as well).
That said, @paarsurrey , I think that we both would benefit from a slightly more careful consideration of the two statements.
Do you understand what Karl Marx said, what he meant, and why people often repeat his claim?
That is somewhat open to interpretation, but most people will agree that he meant that the Church is much too influential in the political sense and that its beliefs lack practical value.
I have little notion of what you meant by "non-religion is the opium of the people". I assume that you meant that it is somehow a serious mistake to... lack a belief in a Creator God, perhaps? If that is what you meant, than you will have a very hard time convincing anyone who is not taking that premise as true already.
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ShushersRdamned
Member
Ha! So we do have here someone who thinks their superstition is any less a faith than religion.
Does that even surprise you? It kind of goes without saying. Everyone feel to have tapped into the truth.Ha! So we do have here someone who thinks their superstition is any less a faith than religion.
Although whatever you call "superstition" is at the very least obscure. And in any case, this kind of comparison is no argument at all, but instead just an observation of how human psychology works.
ShushersRdamned
Member
Superstition is faith in a higher being. God is name for that. Human mind is always superstitious - everyone believes in god.
Uh, no.
You are making four statements in sequence, and every single one is seriously mistaken.
Opium refers to a drug; a sedative or intoxicant. Religion calms and reassures, like a drug, it keeps the proletariat quiet, content and unlikely to raise objections to their destitution, like a drug.
No-religion is like sobriety. You have to face the cold reality of your condition and deal with it without the comfort and reassurance of a tranquilizing mythology.
So no. No religion is the opposite of opium.
No-religion is like sobriety. You have to face the cold reality of your condition and deal with it without the comfort and reassurance of a tranquilizing mythology.
So no. No religion is the opposite of opium.
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
Misguided opinion. If you could only think through my mind for a few moments, I am 100% confident you'd find it completely absent a belief in god(s) of any type whatsoever. I'm pretty sure it'd wipe that smug statement right out of your temporal lobe.
Augustus
…
Irreligious people generally don't "face reality" any more than religious people do.
They just choose to follow a different kind of reasurring mythology although they often lack the self awareness to realise this.
A lack of religion doesn't really provide much.
Marx was making a structural functionalism argument about religion, and particularly about organized religion. Marx believed that religion had certain practical functions in society that were similar to the function of opium in a sick or injured person: it reduced people's immediate suffering and provided them with pleasant illusions which gave them the strength to carry on.
Opium of the people - Wikipedia
A lack of religion does not reduce immediate suffering nor provide pleasant illusions. Folks desiring these things will have to look elsewhere.
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
People who have no faith in anything often just want to do what they want to do, no restrictions, no moral code to live up to imo.
They want to be the freest expression of their true selves. I totally expect it to lead to utter chaos. Heartbreak, inadequacy, jealousy, rage and anger, and of course hatred.
The only thing religion has going for it is they lean on virtues and morality. But that makes all the difference.
America needs to return to a commitment to virtues and morality, especially non religious people.
Immediate gratification, entertainment, and wantfulness leads to misery and addiction. But the world turns, and burns because they dont see the value of virtues and committing themselves to higher ideals, even if nobody follows.
Nobody is perfect in virtue of course because of human nature. But to see the value in committing to them is worthy indeed. Thats how love worth finding happens.
They want to be the freest expression of their true selves. I totally expect it to lead to utter chaos. Heartbreak, inadequacy, jealousy, rage and anger, and of course hatred.
The only thing religion has going for it is they lean on virtues and morality. But that makes all the difference.
America needs to return to a commitment to virtues and morality, especially non religious people.
Immediate gratification, entertainment, and wantfulness leads to misery and addiction. But the world turns, and burns because they dont see the value of virtues and committing themselves to higher ideals, even if nobody follows.
Nobody is perfect in virtue of course because of human nature. But to see the value in committing to them is worthy indeed. Thats how love worth finding happens.
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PureX
Veteran Member
Well, people certainly can become addicted to religion. And like any addiction, it can become very debilitating. Marriages and families torn apart, children horribly abused, communities divided against themselves by cults, and so on.
But I agree that to imply that religion is inherently any more addictive and destructive than any of the many other things that we humans can become addicted to is just a foolish bias. And is too often bandied about simply to slander and insult religions and their adherents en masse, and unfairly.
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Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Samantha Rinne
Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
When you don't believe in religion, you aren't suddenly free.
You believe in materialism. You believe in authority figures. You believe in celebrities. You believe in scientists.
"But all of these people know what they're doing. Unlike those crazy priests!"
Uhhh, about that. Suppose those priests are crazy. Who cares? Just ignore them. When we started listening to shrinks we believed all kinds of stuff about raising children. Now children are screwed up. When we started listening to fad nutritionists, we started Atkins and other diets. Now even children have acid reflux and alot of other protein-based health issues. Ditto for the idea that butter and lard were unhealthy (triggering research on shelf-stable veg fats e.g. trans fats, interesterified oils, and fractionated oils). Our celebrities and news personalities have led us into psychotic hysteria about politics. You're not free of addiction simply because you no longer believe in God, you've just swallowed materialism instead.
Religion caused stuff like Muslim terrorists or the Inquisition, sure.
But science caused this.
You believe in materialism. You believe in authority figures. You believe in celebrities. You believe in scientists.
"But all of these people know what they're doing. Unlike those crazy priests!"
Uhhh, about that. Suppose those priests are crazy. Who cares? Just ignore them. When we started listening to shrinks we believed all kinds of stuff about raising children. Now children are screwed up. When we started listening to fad nutritionists, we started Atkins and other diets. Now even children have acid reflux and alot of other protein-based health issues. Ditto for the idea that butter and lard were unhealthy (triggering research on shelf-stable veg fats e.g. trans fats, interesterified oils, and fractionated oils). Our celebrities and news personalities have led us into psychotic hysteria about politics. You're not free of addiction simply because you no longer believe in God, you've just swallowed materialism instead.
Religion caused stuff like Muslim terrorists or the Inquisition, sure.
But science caused this.