+++ No Piercing At Jesus' Side +++

[Ben Masada]

Here are three reasons why Jesus was never pierced at his side on the cross:

1- The custom to rush the death of all the Jews crucified by the Romans was Jewish and not Roman; and the practice was done only on Fridays,
so that the bodies would not be left hanging during the hours of the Sabbath. And the method was leg-breaking and not spear-piercing.
The Romans wouldn't care less if the Jewish Sabbath got desecrated by the bodies on the crosses.

2 - There is a tradition that the Centurion was richly bribed by Joseph of Arimathea, who was a very rich man in Israel, to just let him - Joseph - take
Jesus off the cross and report back to Pilate that Jesus was indeed already dead.

3 - That Centurion and his men could never by their own accord pierce Jesus after their recognition that Jesus was indeed the son of God.
This is for lack of any other option, a confession that they had converted themselves to the Cause of Jesus. That's in Matthew 27:54.

The first and third reasons dispense with any other evidence that the piercing of Jesus' side by a Roman spear was an interpolation by
either the writer of the Gospel or by the Fathers of the Church in 327 CE, when they selected the books into the Canon of the NT.

Ben

 

[Troublemane]

interesting!...if true, this strengthens the case that Jesus was drugged and removed from the cross before death, and was secretly returned to strength by nicodemus and joseph of arimethea.

notice how he shows up afterwards in the gospels, in disguise and so changed by the experience no one recognized him. :angel2:

 

[Ben Masada]

interesting!...if true, this strengthens the case that Jesus was drugged and removed from the cross before death, and was secretly returned to strength by nicodemus and joseph of arimethea.

notice how he shows up afterwards in the gospels, in disguise and so changed by the experience no one recognized him. :angel2:

Way to go Troublemane! I mean, Troubleshooter. You are rather a trouble shooter.
I agree with you even with regards to the drug. After all, they did give him some
bitter stuff to drink at the cross. Then, as a matter of fact, two rich men did offer him VIP treatment.

Ben :bow:

 

[Heneni]

Here are three reasons why Jesus was never pierced at his side on the cross:

1- The custom to rush the death of all the Jews crucified by the Romans was Jewish and not Roman; and the practice was done only on Fridays,
so that the bodies would not be left hanging during the hours of the Sabbath. And the method was leg-breaking and not spear-piercing.
The Romans wouldn't care less if the Jewish Sabbath got desecrated by the bodies on the crosses.

2 - There is a tradition that the Centurion was richly bribed by Joseph of Arimathea, who was a very rich man in Israel, to just let him - Joseph - take
Jesus off the cross and report back to Pilate that Jesus was indeed already dead.

3 - That Centurion and his men could never by their own accord pierce Jesus after their recognition that Jesus was indeed the son of God.
This is for lack of any other option, a confession that they had converted themselves to the Cause of Jesus. That's in Matthew 27:54.

The first and third reasons dispense with any other evidence that the piercing of Jesus' side by a Roman spear was an interpolation by
either the writer of the Gospel or by the Fathers of the Church in 327 CE, when they selected the books into the Canon of the NT.

Ben

Are we to take your word for number 1,2,and 3?

Was it custom to put the title of the crucified person above their head? Did everybody get a 'this is the king of the jews' kind of board above their head?

Was it custom for the one who sends someone else to a cross to wash his hands of all guilt?

Was it custom for a disciple to betray his master?

There are many traditions and customs that went for a loop during the time of jesus's crucifiction.

 

[Ben Masada]

Are we to take your word for number 1,2,and 3?

Was it custom to put the title of the crucified person above their head? Did everybody get a 'this is the king of the jews' kind of board above their head?

Was it custom for the one who sends someone else to a cross to wash his hands of all guilt?

Was it custom for a disciple to betray his master?

There are many traditions and customs that went for a loop during the time of jesus's crucifiction.

Is it a custom to look so beautiful? How can I answer your questions above staring at your avatar? You can call me fickle but I loved it. :drool:

Okay, let's be serious! You don't have to take my word for anything. Just follow your nose, because it will take you to the kitchen.
That's where the bread is being baked. I mean, my speculations are based on NT evidences.

About the title on Jesus' cross, no, it was not a custom. It was a joke to add salt to the wound. The hand-washing never took place.
Only those who are moved by faith and Antisemitism are ready to believe that Pilate, the most cruel of all Romans would stoop that
low before a crowd of Jews, the people he hated most in his life.

Now, for a disciple to betray his master, Judas was not the first neither the last. That's the most common occurrence in all societies.

You speak of Jesus' crucifixion as if Jesus was the only Jew to be crucified by the Romans. Thousands of Jews, my dear, were crucified
by the Romans. Read Josephus. And all went through the same cruelties before the final act. :sad4:

Ben

 

[Heneni]

Is it a custom to look so beautiful? How can I answer your questions above staring at your avatar? You can call me fickle but I loved it. :drool:

Okay, let's be serious! You don't have to take my word for anything. Just follow your nose, because it will take you to the kitchen.
That's where the bread is being baked. I mean, my speculations are based on NT evidences.

About the title on Jesus' cross, no, it was not a custom. It was a joke to add salt to the wound. The hand-washing never took place.
Only those who are moved by faith and Antisemitism are ready to believe that Pilate, the most cruel of all Romans would stoop that
low before a crowd of Jews, the people he hated most in his life.

Now, for a disciple to betray his master, Judas was not the first neither the last. That's the most common occurrence in all societies.

You speak of Jesus' crucifixion as if Jesus was the only Jew to be crucified by the Romans. Thousands of Jews, my dear, were crucified
by the Romans. Read Josephus. And all went through the same cruelties before the final act. :sad4:

Ben

While you are staring at my.....avatar...ben...you should remember that whatever you say did NOT happen, does not automatically make it so

To tell you the truth, i think im a little beyond speculating about the bible. There is nothing more convincing than experiencing the hand of god in my own life. No book can validate my experiences and no book can disqualify it. So for me...there is only one saviour, because he saved me. And thats the only thing i can witness to. You were not there at the time of jesus....the only thing you can do is speculate. What im experiencing in my everyday life...can not be speculation. Its my experience and my truth. And Jesus has not failed me yet. And never will.

Many can try to discredit the books in the bible. But the book of my life is continually being written, and in it, is yet more proof of the truth. If people succeed to make the bible look like a farse...they still have thousands more to discredit, every single life story of every single person that know christ is still a living testimony of the saving grace of jesus christ. If it takes people this long to discredit the bible with its few books, imagine the task of discrediting the life stories of thousands of saints.

Heneni

 

[Charity]

Is it a custom to look so beautiful? How can I answer your questions above staring at your avatar? You can call me fickle but I loved it. :drool:

Okay, let's be serious! You don't have to take my word for anything. Just follow your nose, because it will take you to the kitchen.
That's where the bread is being baked. I mean, my speculations are based on NT evidences.

About the title on Jesus' cross, no, it was not a custom. It was a joke to add salt to the wound. The hand-washing never took place.
Only those who are moved by faith and Antisemitism are ready to believe that Pilate, the most cruel of all Romans would stoop that
low before a crowd of Jews, the people he hated most in his life.

Now, for a disciple to betray his master, Judas was not the first neither the last. That's the most common occurrence in all societies.

You speak of Jesus' crucifixion as if Jesus was the only Jew to be crucified by the Romans. Thousands of Jews, my dear, were crucified
by the Romans. Read Josephus. And all went through the same cruelties before the final act. :sad4:

Ben

Well Ben looks like you just forgot cookies and lusted after an avatar.....
I have to agree with Heneni It would be difficult to believe anything other than what I feel is truth about the accounts of the crucifixion

are you really fickle ben? :drool:

 

[Ben Masada]

Well Ben looks like you just forgot cookies and lusted after an avatar.....
I have to agree with Heneni It would be difficult to believe anything other than what I feel is truth about the accounts of the crucifixion

are you really fickle ben? :drool:

Oh my gosh! Now, what can I say? Fickle... Am I fickle? Perhaps a little since I became a widower in October of 2006. I think I have become a little fickle since then.

Ben:drool:

 

[Ben Masada]

You were not there at the time of jesus....the only thing you can do is speculate.

I did not have to be there Heneni. If you believe that the NT is Divinely inspired Scripture, that's all that I need.

Every single life story of every single person that know christ is still a living testimony of the saving grace of jesus christ.

How much do you claim to know of Christ? This was only a title added to Jesus by Paul about 30 years after Jesus' crucifixion.
Jesus was born, lived 33 years of hislife and died without ever knowing that he was Christ.

And what do you mean by "saving grace?" What about those who live in daily communion with God without the "saving grace of Jesus Christ?"
How do you explain that phenomenon?

Heneni

Ben

 

[dawny0826]

While you are staring at my.....avatar...ben...you should remember that whatever you say did NOT happen, does not automatically make it so

To tell you the truth, i think im a little beyond speculating about the bible. There is nothing more convincing than experiencing the hand of god in my own life. No book can validate my experiences and no book can disqualify it. So for me...there is only one saviour, because he saved me. And thats the only thing i can witness to. You were not there at the time of jesus....the only thing you can do is speculate. What im experiencing in my everyday life...can not be speculation. Its my experience and my truth. And Jesus has not failed me yet. And never will.

Many can try to discredit the books in the bible. But the book of my life is continually being written, and in it, is yet more proof of the truth. If people succeed to make the bible look like a farse...they still have thousands more to discredit, every single life story of every single person that know christ is still a living testimony of the saving grace of jesus christ. If it takes people this long to discredit the bible with its few books, imagine the task of discrediting the life stories of thousands of saints.

Heneni

What a genuinely lovely post. I fully concur.:flower2:

 

[Runewolf1973]

To me Jesus was a great healer who cared for people and wanted to teach them about life. In a way Jesus was truly the son of God, but aren't we all? We are all "children" of this existence or what could be called "God". The bible was just a book written by many different people. Some of those people understood Jesus, others just put words in his mouth. But that's my opinion.

 

[Ben Masada]

To me Jesus was a great healer who cared for people and wanted to teach them about life. In a way Jesus was truly the son of God, but aren't we all? We are all "children" of this existence or what could be called "God". The bible was just a book written by many different people. Some of those people understood Jesus, others just put words in his mouth. But that's my opinion.

And yours is a valid opinion. But how do you know that Jesus was a great healer?
And if we are all sons of God, in what sense was Jesus "truly"?

Ben

 

[Runewolf1973]

And yours is a valid opinion. But how do you know that Jesus was a great healer?
And if we are all sons of God, in what sense was Jesus "truly"?

Ben

That's just based on my understanding of who Jesus supposedly was. From what I gather he was a healer of sorts, perhaps like a shaman with very strong powers to direct energy. Am I wrong thinking Jesus was a healer? I don't know, I never lived back then. Perhaps in a different lifetime.

As far as being the Son of God, Jesus was no more the Son of God than any other person. So, truly we are no different. We are all part of this existence. We always have been and always will be One with the All in All. The "Father" if you wish to call it that. But there is always a feminine aspect there as well as part of the duality in all things. If there is a Father, there must also be a Mother. Just part of my vision.

 

[Ben Masada]

That's just based on my understanding of who Jesus supposedly was. From what I gather he was a healer of sorts, perhaps like a shaman with very strong powers to direct energy. Am I wrong thinking Jesus was a healer? I don't know, I never lived back then. Perhaps in a different lifetime.

As far as being the Son of God, Jesus was no more the Son of God than any other person. So, truly we are no different. We are all part of this existence. We always have been and always will be One with the All in All. The "Father" if you wish to call it that. But there is always a feminine aspect there as well as part of the duality in all things. If there is a Father, there must also be a Mother. Just part of my vision.

I thought your statement about Jesus as a healer had come as a result of reading the NT. But as I can see, there is some kind of intuition in there somewhere.

Regarding God the Father, I believe that's the only instance when the rule of opposites doesn't apply. God is absolutely One and incorporeal at that.

Ben

 

[Runewolf1973]

I thought your statement about Jesus as a healer had come as a result of reading the NT. But as I can see, there is some kind of intuition in there somewhere.

Regarding God the Father, I believe that's the only instance when the rule of opposites doesn't apply. God is absolutely One and incorporeal at that.

Ben

Yes, "God" is One. The mother and father are both One. Not separate. Like two sides of a coin that together make one.

 

[Ben Masada]

Yes, "God" is One. The mother and father are both One. Not separate. Like two sides of a coin that together make one.

Sorry pal, but I said ABSOLUTELY ONE. No side different from another.

Ben

 

[Runewolf1973]

Sorry pal, but I said ABSOLUTELY ONE. No side different from another.

Ben

I think we just have different ways of understanding the same thing. I see dualities in all things, but the dualities are what constitute the Whole. Like the two poles of the earth which are both equally part of the whole earth. But that's just my own perspective. I respect your views.

 

[Father Heathen]

Coincidentally, Krishna too was also pierced during his own crucifixion.

 

[Ben Masada]

I think we just have different ways of understanding the same thing. I see dualities in all things, but the dualities are what constitute the Whole. Like the two poles of the earth which are both equally part of the whole earth. But that's just my own perspective. I respect your views.

I do respect your views too. And I do agree with you on everything else. Only not duality in God.
Perhaps because my conception of God is that He is incorporeal. Hence, no plurality in incorporeality.

Ben

 

[Ben Masada]

So for me...there is only one saviour, because he saved me.

Heneni

You can add me to your list, because also for me there is only one Savior; and
believe me: He too has saved me. That's in Isaiah 43:11; Hosea 13:4; Joel 2:27.

Ben :rainbow1: