No other Path to Unity but God.

[TransmutingSoul]

Does this so-called unity require that everyone believe that your version of a god exists, and that your beliefs are moral?

No I do not see that will be the path humanity will take to a lesser peace unity.

Regards Tony

 

[rational experiences]

The order of life is each one self.

So one self says I consciously quantify by my human suffering seeing the needs of humanity myself ...that change must occur.

Hear my words. Don't follow me. I don't pretend I am building a new world. I challenge the old ways and choices only.

A teacher.

So normally a teacher is allowed to teach anywhere and everywhere. The ideas are sensible real and accepted.

They even say I am not any organisation. They travel communities teaching.

Yet next moment an organisation is founded.

In the past it was the first medical building the church. By design healing resonance. Was not anything else. Healing for free said the teacher.

Seems like you ignored the teacher who stated don't self idolise my human life nor your own.

Yet you ignored the teacher.

So what is the struggle in life? Human need to re emerge as a stated group instead of being mutually accepting human first nor organisation.

Question why? We had to overthrow group organised authority.

Wrongs....of the first past first organisation choice designer builder scientist men.

Not family by definition practice.

Reason.

Two humans for everyone as parents existed first. No organisation.

Sex next.

Birth determined presence.

Hierarchy natural the elder cared for the younger. The younger then cared for the elderly.

Our only truth.

 

[ppp]

No I do not see that will be the path humanity will take to a lesser peace unity.

Regards Tony

So, what exactly is this "lesser peace unity" that I, as an atheist, and methodological naturalist, would agree with?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If it is the secular governments that come together to put together laws that ensures the peace and well-being of everybody, there very well could be laws that allow for people to believe in different religions, but also laws keeping some religions from teaching their religion in a way to try and make converts. But then maybe there would be laws to prevent some scam religion to come along and try to take people's money.

There is prophecy that may unfold that does offer the government's will try to do away with religion, that may have unfolded in another way, it may be yet to unfold.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So, what exactly is this "lesser peace unity" that I, as an atheist, and methodological naturalist, would agree with?

You an decide that for your own self as it unfolds.

Regards Tony

 

[ppp]

You an decide that for your own self as it unfolds.

Regards Tony

As what unfolds? Life?

 

[CG Didymus]

So, what exactly is this "lesser peace unity" that I, as an atheist, and methodological naturalist, would agree with?

This might help.
Here's an article by a Baha'i...

Baha’u’llah envisioned a time in the future when the peoples of the world will live together in peace and unity as members of one faith. Universal justice will be established based on adherence to the law of God. A new civilization based on spiritual values will come into being. He referred to this as the Most Great Peace.

In his own time he called upon the rulers of the world to support his Cause and implied that had they done so, the Most Great Peace could have been established relatively quickly due to their leadership and influence. When they rejected him, Baha’u’llah exhorted them to establish the “Lesser Peace”—a political unity of the nations that would be a prelude to the Most Great Peace.
​

So, the "lesser" peace is not the end. It's a steppingstone towards the most great peace. And that's the one that involves God, his laws and his religion. They don't expect that to happen anytime soon. But the lesser peace was hinted as maybe happening before the year 2000.

What is now known will be retrospectively examined here, namely, that popular understandings and expectations of statements in the Bahá'í sacred writings which had anticipated the establishment of the Lesser Peace by the year 2000 did not materialize as expected. This disconnect calls for a re-examination of the scriptures, the authoritative interpretations of Shoghi Effendi and the elucidations of the Universal House of Justice. The dissonance between the understanding and expectations of believers, on the one hand, and the statements made in authoritative Bahá'í sources...​

But the Baha'i Faith also said that there would be a time of turmoil before the lesser peace. So, maybe we're not too far off.

The Baha’i writings explain that there will be three stages leading to the new divine civilization. First will be a period of great turmoil and suffering, which we are now witnessing. Then will come the Lesser Peace, which is the political unity of nations. After that will come the Most Great Peace.​

 

[TransmutingSoul]

As what unfolds? Life?

Many are working towards that peace, it unfolds when we join in.

Elimination of all predudices.
Elimination of extremes of wealth and poverty.
Universal education for all people.

They are some of the solutions needed.

Regards Tony

 

[ppp]

Baha’u’llah envisioned a time in the future when the peoples of the world will live together in peace and unity as members of one faith.

Obviously, I would oppose that.

Universal justice will be established based on adherence to the law of God.

And I do not believe that god is a real thing. Nor have I seen any religious system or moral standards that are not in need of improvement.

So, the "lesser" peace is not the end. It's a steppingstone towards the most great peace. And that's the one that involves God, his laws and his religion.

Ick.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I see the Bible does contain guidance as to what God will provide to us. The interpretation of those passages have caused division, so how do you see will we balance that division, or maybe you see we will not?

Regards Tony

Jeremiah 10:23....
What do you get from that?
Has there ever been a government that met everyone's needs?

I found this, from someone who no longer posts here....
((NEXT POST)

 

[Hockeycowboy]

To start with, man was under divine government. But in the garden of Eden, our first parents turned their backs on that. They chose to be independent of God, wanting to rule themselves. (Genesis 3:1-5) Really, though, man was not created to rule himself. The prophet Jeremiah wrote: "I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step."—Jeremiah 10:23; Proverbs 20:24.



Nevertheless, since the issue of government was raised, Jehovah has patiently allowed time to resolve it. Indeed, he has generously allowed thousands of years for man to try every conceivable form of government. With what result? It has become evident that no human government can remove oppression, inequity, or other causes of unhappiness.​

Indeed, in view of human history, can anyone truly say that God is unjust when he announces his intention to remove all human governments and replace them with one of his own? Surely not! I positively welcome the fulfillment of this Bible prophecy: "In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite."—Daniel 2:44.​

The heavenly King of that Kingdom is the resurrected Jesus. Preparing him for that position—as well as choosing humans to be corulers with him—has taken time. During all that time, God has exercised patience.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Here's another post that mirrors my belief:

In this world, we need some 'good news' when all we hear is bad news and things getting worse. People are getting very depressed. Looking to man to solve the problems is pointless because MAN is the major part of the problem.....you name it and man either created it or exacerbated it....or both. He has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he cannot rule himself successfully without harming others.....he thought that his independence from God would result in freedom to do whatever he pleased......but look where it has taken us.....how can he take us back to any kind of quality of life when he obsessed with his own wealth and power at the expense of others and the planet itself?

It will take a power greater than man's to fix this mess.....all foretold in scripture....we are in the last part of the "last days" of this world system ruled by men under satan's influence. (1 John 5:19) If people cannot see that something has changed the world forever, with no way to fix all the problems plaguing us, then there is a certain kind of 'blindness' that afflicts those with little or no spiritual eyesight. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4)

If you want to discuss, transmuting, I'm willing.
I don't see Deeje here anymore.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Jeremiah 10:23....
What do you get from that?
Has there ever been a government that met everyone's needs?

I found this, from someone who no longer posts here....
((NEXT POST)

It is to God we turn for Spiritual guidance.

God has given rule to Caesar. A just ruler is a blessing.

Regards Tony

 

[Hockeycowboy]

It is to God we turn for Spiritual guidance.

Agreed. And guidance for relationships & everyday living

God has given rule to Caesar. A just ruler is a blessing.

Yes, to a degree. Romans 13 supports this, while acknowledging that human rule is in a ‘relative position’ to God’s rule.
IOW, God wants us to love & care for others even our enemies, as Stated through His Son, Jesus, at Matthew 5:44. But if human authorities demand that we break that rule, then we “obey God as ruler rather than man.” (Acts of the Apostles 5:29). That’s where the “relative” part comes in.

Take care, Tony.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Sorry, Tony.... I should have been more thorough in clarifying “relative”: the text of Romans 13:1 includes “hupo”, explained here:

Strong's Greek: 5259. ὑπό (hupo) -- by, under
“
HELPS Word-studies
5259 hypó (a preposition) – properly, under, often meaning "under authority" of someone working directly as a subordinate (under someone/something else).”

It’s a *relative* position to God.

 

[Kooky]

So what are the councels that we will need to heed to find our unity?

The solidarity of the international working class.

 

[viole]

Then a transition from a Nation to a global citizen will be a breeze for them. Maybe they have embraced a unity in their diversity.

It seems a significant percentage still have a faith.

"In Scandinavia, Evangelical Lutheran is the most prominent religious group. Yet other expressions of Christianity, the ever-expanding Muslim population, and the revitalization of traditional Norse religion have created a diverse array of spiritual communities in the region."

Religion in Scandinavia: Norse, Christianity, Islam | Scandinavia Facts

Regards Tony

Well, they count members like the Catholics. You count as soon as you are baptized (at an age where logical thinking is still very limited).

Officially, I am still a member of the Lutheran church, too.

ciao

- viole

 

[F1fan]

It still sounds as if "unity through God" only caters to a minority of people, and that is the Christians. It totally alienates atheists who are growing in number, so I'm not sure religion is a smart approach if the goal is unity.

 

[Vinayaka]

It still sounds as if "unity through God" only caters to a minority of people, and that is the Christians. It totally alienates atheists who are growing in number, so I'm not sure religion is a smart approach if the goal is unity.

I concur. As soon as you put the word 'God' in it, it creates disunity, exclusivity, them versus us. There are much better inclusive words like 'humanity', the human species', and more. But that's the way it is.

Unity my way isn't unity at all.

 

[joe1776]

My first thought would be the core values one being the Golden Rule.

Regards Tony

Tony, the Golden Rule illustrates why men should not create moral rules: It's both insufficient and unnecessary as a moral guide.

For example, should the people of the world have applied the Golden Rule in dealing with Hitler's Germany and the other Axis powers in WW2? Should the Axis powers have been treated with kindness?

Of course not.

Moral rules and laws created by men are unnecessary because we are born gifted with a conscience, an intuitive sense that allows us to discern right from wrong. It was conscience which moved 55 nations, most of them not under attack, to cooperate in stopping the oppressive regimes of Germany, Italy and Japan in WW2.