No other Path to Unity but God.

[viole]

This is a follow on from the New Athiest Humanities Downfall?

It has been recorded.

"The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established. This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded."

(“Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh”, p. 286)

That is the topic of discussion.

So what are the councels that we will need to heed to find our unity?

Also, does this mean atheists and people of all the various faiths will not embrace those councels? (Personally I do not see that necessarily will be the case)

Regards Tony

Since in Scandinavia people seem to have attained something close to that goal, while being the most atheistic countries in the world, it is obvious that God is totally superfluous if the goal is unity, prosperity and happiness.

If we correlate belief in God, and social happiness, I would say that God is actually counterproductive if you want a happy society.

ciao

- viole

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The goal of humanity is spiritual freedom of the individual and one world Government, by the people and for the people. Wise "council" during the intermediate steps towards that goal.

I see that is a sound prediction.

You're certainly welcome to see God as the path to peace.
I'll see peace as the path to peace.

What was offered is that the Councels of God need to be embraced. Those Councels become our best practice, even if we do not acknowledge God as the source.

So peace needs foundations and all the foundations that will build peace have already been written, you will be able to find them in all the Holy books. That men with and some without that knowledge use them to build peace, is how I see the process will unfold.

I see a time will come when humanity will again embrace Faith as a unified whole, as we will find out the world cannot find a most great peace, without faith.

Regards Tony

 

[Revoltingest]

What was offered is that the Councels of God need to be embraced. Those Councels become our best practice, even if we do not acknowledge God as the source.

I cannot acknowledge a fictional deity as the source of peace.
Your God is rather immoral IMO, eg, opposing homosexuality,
favoring absolute chastity. He's definitely not libertarian.
Ref....
Criticism of the Baháʼí Faith - Wikipedia

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Just another way of saying "we won't be truly happy until everyone follows our religion". Don't be a pawn in the power struggle between incompatible religions.

That is not what the OP has offered. Post # 2 offers one.source of compatibility.

Personally I see unity is the opposite of a power struggle. It will be built on compromise.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Which of the two might be the sticking point - the differences between the various faiths or between the religious and those not so - could be debated, but the non-religious generally don't have an end-point in view, so I think they have less to gamble with, and possibly lose, than any with religious beliefs. Apart from being forced to believe something they can't necessarily abide by that is - and such being forced down their throats.

The path to unity it seems to me has to come from all of us dropping our most cherished beliefs unless such can be universally agreed and proven to enhance our lives - and which, morally, we would all tend to agree as to what such is, unless such is dictated or biased by some particular belief.

I think we can arise above the sticking points. I see it will be a unity in our diversity.

When Abdul'baha went to America prior to the first world war, his talks always offered no one needs to change faith, they just need to go back and embrace the core values of the faith they already practice.

I see all the Holy Books contain those councels for us to follow, as they were all revealed to create Love and harmony amongst mankind.

Regards Tony

 

[Revoltingest]

That is not what the OP has offered. Post # 2 offers one.source of compatibility.

Personally I see unity is the opposite of a power struggle. It will be built on compromise.

Regards Tony

I like power struggles.
Their absence is a symptom of tyranny.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Sounds like you aren't just talking about God; you're talking about getting everyone to accept the revelation claims of your particular (fringe) religion.

Rest assured it is all about the Councels of God.

World peace will be instigated by the Nations, and not the Baha'i Faith.

All Faiths, inclusive of the Baha'i Faith have the required councels from God and the move towards peace will need to draw on those councels.

I see in that process those instigating the peace process may not realise that they are using a councel already given in the Holy books, time will tell.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I'm not even getting that deep into it. The OP just gives me a very strong "we'd all be in agreement if everyone just decided to agree with me" vibe.

Well, yeah, but the same would be true if @TransmutingSoul and everyone else all abandoned their current beliefs in favour of the beliefs of some other random person. There would probably also be a lot less discord in the world if everyone willingly became Raelians, say. The Baha'i faith isn't special in this regard, and this fact isn't a reason to convert to the Baha'i faith any more than it is a reason to convert to Raelism.

I see world peace cannot happen unless there is a willingness to discuss what needs to be done.

In the end, how will it be acheived? The OP is suggesting that it needs to built on core values, core values that are already available.

One does not have to convert, but one will have to agree to work with the values that will build a lasting unity.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

I see we have the power to change our attitudes, learn from our mistakes.

Regards Tony

And religions that think they are the only ones that are right are a problem. Why would they change? That's going to take them to realize that some of their beliefs are wrong. That's a pretty big step for them to take. And if not forced, will they? Even if it means the end of the world, they might believe that is a good thing... that their prophet will then come and make a new Earth.

Then between politically liberal and conservative is almost the same. Each thinks they have a better way of doing things. Baha'i might be against partisan politics, but isn't there still going to be a liberal view and a conservative view? Is the plan to only limit the extremes of beliefs and leave a little room to the right or to the left, but not too much?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Jesus was killed, sacrificed, basically tortured.
Personally I'd want to avoid this part.

I see many would agree. Yet going further with this, Jesus also said if you really wanted to follow him, we also had to pick up the cross.

So to me that is one of those councels, part of the foundation of unity.

It is about sacrificing our own needs for the good of all, the success of unity will depend on this principal. Also Muhammad taught submission. This will be another foundation required, as a level of submission will be required.

So we can gather all these foundations stones, the councels found in all faiths to build a lasting unity.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

The Baha'i faith isn't exactly unique among proselytizing religions for thinking that its proselytizing will help the world.

And that's the problem. They believe they are the newest, therefore the religion with the newest information on what God wants everybody to do. And once a person joins, part of their obligation is to go tell everybody.

Just another way of saying "we won't be truly happy until everyone follows our religion". Don't be a pawn in the power struggle between incompatible religions.

And that is also part of the Baha'i religion. It makes the different religions compatible. The contradictions and differences are explained away. Usually by saying that people added things into the religion or misinterpreted what was said by their prophet. So, if a person believes what they say, there is no more reason to think any religion is wrong or different. They are all one and all came from the same God. Which, conveniently, leaves only the Baha'i Faith that has been messed up by people adding things in and misinterpreting it. Maybe true? Maybe not?

 

[CG Didymus]

I see world peace cannot happen unless there is a willingness to discuss what needs to be done.

In the end, how will it be acheived? The OP is suggesting that it needs to built on core values, core values that are already available.

One does not have to convert, but one will have to agree to work with the values that will build a lasting unity.

Regards Tony

Okay, one core value is freedom of religion or freedom to not believe in any religion. Can Baha'is live with that and not go "teach" people that their religion is new and has better laws from God that are needed in today's world?

Even if the world agrees to allow freedom of religion, where are they going to draw the line between a good religion and some harmful cult? And who's going to define what is "harmful"? When it asks it people to be martyred for their beliefs? When it asks its people for money all the time? When it sends it people out to preach to the world that they are now the new truth, and their prophet is the true one from God? Lots of religions do that and people in the older established religions accuse them of being a cult and try to stop them, even kill and imprison them.

 

[Nakosis]

I see many would agree. Yet going further with this, Jesus also said if you really wanted to follow him, we also had to pick up the cross.

So to me that is one of those councels, part of the foundation of unity.

It is about sacrificing our own needs for the good of all, the success of unity will depend on this principal. Also Muhammad taught submission. This will be another foundation required, as a level of submission will be required.

So we can gather all these foundations stones, the councels found in all faiths to build a lasting unity.

Regards Tony

Honestly, I see this understanding myself. What I haven't seen, including my self, is the willingness.
Mainly why I've found little reason to follow the various Christian leaders I've come across, or really any spiritual leaders.
IOW is is easy to talk a good spiritual game, much harder to actually walk an authentic spiritual path.

 

[CG Didymus]

I see a time will come when humanity will again embrace Faith as a unified whole, as we will find out the world cannot find a most great peace, without faith.

Why would the average person want to have one religion dominate? Even if it is the Baha'i Faith that means that all those laws would now become the laws of all the people. Then what? No wine. No beer. No sex unless married to a person of the opposite gender. That is what is supposed to be the Most Great Peace?

If war is already done with and gone. People are able to live in peace and believe whatever they want. Why would they then choose to put themselves under the power and authority of a religion? But that is where the Baha'i is leading us towards isn't it? Recognizing the Baha'i Faith as necessary to achieve the Most Great Peace is the next step after the people of the world unite and create a lessor peace... right? If God is true, and if the Baha'i Faith is true, isn't that the ultimate goal? One religion under God and all people living and obeying his rules.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Why would the average person want to have one religion dominate? Even if it is the Baha'i Faith that means that all those laws would now become the laws of all the people. Then what? No wine. No beer. No sex unless married to a person of the opposite gender. That is what is supposed to be the Most Great Peace?

If war is already done with and gone. People are able to live in peace and believe whatever they want. Why would they then choose to put themselves under the power and authority of a religion? But that is where the Baha'i is leading us towards isn't it? Recognizing the Baha'i Faith as necessary to achieve the Most Great Peace is the next step after the people of the world unite and create a lessor peace... right? If God is true, and if the Baha'i Faith is true, isn't that the ultimate goal? One religion under God and all people living and obeying his rules.

Firstly it is not about domination, it is about cooperation.

The urgent need for our age is to embrace the oneness of humanity in a Unity based on our diversity.

Laws that assist that unity will need to be considered.

It will be a democratic process.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Why would the average person want to have one religion dominate? Even if it is the Baha'i Faith that means that all those laws would now become the laws of all the people. Then what? No wine. No beer. No sex unless married to a person of the opposite gender. That is what is supposed to be the Most Great Peace?

If war is already done with and gone. People are able to live in peace and believe whatever they want. Why would they then choose to put themselves under the power and authority of a religion? But that is where the Baha'i is leading us towards isn't it? Recognizing the Baha'i Faith as necessary to achieve the Most Great Peace is the next step after the people of the world unite and create a lessor peace... right? If God is true, and if the Baha'i Faith is true, isn't that the ultimate goal? One religion under God and all people living and obeying his rules.

These following words offer the way forward CG, as the Most Great Peace was rejected a lesser peace needs to be built by the Nations. I have offered before,this will not be the Baha'i and it will not be Baha'i law.

".....Now that ye have refused the Most Great Peace, hold ye fast unto this, the Lesser Peace, that haply ye may in some degree better your own condition and that of your dependents.
O rulers of the earth! Be reconciled among yourselves, that ye may need no more armaments save in a measure to safeguard your territories and dominions. Beware lest ye disregard the counsel of the All-Knowing, the Faithful.
Be united, O kings of the earth, for thereby will the tempest of discord be stilled amongst you, and your peoples find rest, if ye be of them that comprehend. Should any one among you take up arms against another, rise ye all against him, for this is naught but manifest justice..."

It may be that lesser peace process also will try to do away with religion as a guiding force. I see the potential of the Baha'i Faith will become realised after the Lesser peace process been put in place and run for some time.

Regards Tony

 

[F1fan]

Firstly it is not about domination, it is about cooperation.

The urgent need for our age is to embrace the oneness of humanity in a Unity based on our diversity.

Laws that assist that unity will need to be considered.

It will be a democratic process.

Regards Tony

Then would you agree that the Baha'i leadership should officially eliminate the anti-homosexuality policy, along with the prohibition on sex before marriage, along with other controversial ideas in our modern age?

 

[CG Didymus]

It may be that lesser peace process also will try to do away with religion as a guiding force.

If it is the secular governments that come together to put together laws that ensures the peace and well-being of everybody, there very well could be laws that allow for people to believe in different religions, but also laws keeping some religions from teaching their religion in a way to try and make converts. But then maybe there would be laws to prevent some scam religion to come along and try to take people's money.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Since in Scandinavia people seem to have attained something close to that goal, while being the most atheistic countries in the world, it is obvious that God is totally superfluous if the goal is unity, prosperity and happiness.

If we correlate belief in God, and social happiness, I would say that God is actually counterproductive if you want a happy society.

ciao

- viole

Then a transition from a Nation to a global citizen will be a breeze for them. Maybe they have embraced a unity in their diversity.

It seems a significant percentage still have a faith.

"In Scandinavia, Evangelical Lutheran is the most prominent religious group. Yet other expressions of Christianity, the ever-expanding Muslim population, and the revitalization of traditional Norse religion have created a diverse array of spiritual communities in the region."

Religion in Scandinavia: Norse, Christianity, Islam | Scandinavia Facts

Regards Tony

 

[ppp]

This is a follow on from the New Athiest Humanities Downfall?

It has been recorded.

"The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established. This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded."

(“Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh”, p. 286)

That is the topic of discussion.

So what are the councels that we will need to heed to find our unity?

Also, does this mean atheists and people of all the various faiths will not embrace those councels? (Personally I do not see that necessarily will be the case)

Regards Tony

Does this so-called unity require that everyone believe that your version of a god exists, and that your beliefs are moral?