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No more babies being delivered at NY hospital

Discussion in 'COVID-19' started by KenS, Sep 13, 2021.

  1. F1fan

    F1fan Well-Known Member

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    There are also non-experts jumping to conclusions. We live in a social media environment where there is a lot of disinformation and citizens with poor skill at being able to discern poor quality media from good quality media. As a society social media caught us woefully unprepared intellectually and emotionally to use social media in a more constructive way.

    Well that might tell us something about your circle of friends. Certainly there was good evidence to not trust trump and his administration, that being corrupt. But Biden has a sincere interest in helping the public good, and there is a good reason to trust his team of experts. Right wing media is using politics to create distrust and division, and that bad faith action is criminal to my mind. It was a right wing anti-vaxxer who infected me and about 60 at the wedding i attended. Everyone else was vaccinated including the bride's parents and their friends who are all republican. It was one guy.

    Who do you really on? I rely on the AP, Reuters, ABC, NBC, CBS, NPR, PBS is good, BBC, NY Times, and a few other good quality sources. How about you?
     
  2. Alienistic

    Alienistic Anti-conformity

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    I am personally apolitical and think that they are all a bunch of clowns, although sometimes it is a good comedy show. Won’t personally pick sides, can see sense and nonsense in both “sides” ideologies.

    None. I don’t see my existence as being “relied” upon by watching them.
     
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  3. F1fan

    F1fan Well-Known Member

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    Libertarians tend to be anti-politics. You definitely seems influenced by this way of thinking.



    Well then you have no information to properly form any opinions.
     
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  4. Alienistic

    Alienistic Anti-conformity

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    It is the same tactics and methods being used many years ago. A few minutes quick glance these days and it’s nothing new under the sun.
     
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  5. F1fan

    F1fan Well-Known Member

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    Like the prosecution for the Snope's trial.

    Not really an adequate gathering of facts and data, so this explains your lazy perspective. Well informed people have the advantage.
     
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  6. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Veteran Member

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    I wish people would stop citing VAERS already.
    "VAERS accepts and analyzes reports of possible health problems—also called “adverse events”—after vaccination. As an early warning system, VAERS cannot prove that a vaccine caused a problem. Specifically, a report to VAERS does not mean that a vaccine caused an adverse event. But VAERS can give CDC and FDA important information. If it looks as though a vaccine might be causing a problem, FDA and CDC will investigate further and take action if needed.

    Anyone can submit a report to VAERS — healthcare professionals, vaccine manufacturers, and the general public. VAERS welcomes all reports, regardless of seriousness, and regardless of how likely the vaccine may have been to have caused the adverse event. ...

    VAERS is not designed to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event. A report to VAERS does not mean the vaccine caused the event."

    VAERS | Vaccine Safety | CDC
     
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  7. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    This pandemic needs a layered approach: vaccination, physical distancing, masking, contact tracing, mobility restrictions, etc.

    Vaccinated people who aren't worrying about all the other layers of protection are still an issue, but vaccination is the most important layer of protection.

    ... and in my experience, people who refuse to be vaccinated usually aren't being responsible with the other measures either.

    It's not going to go away on its own. We had a chance to do it, but unvaccinated people who chose not to physically distance have basically guaranteed that COVID will become an endemic disease that we'll just have to live with from now on.

    Hopefully it will lessen in severity over time (like the 1918 flu pandemic did as it became our seasonal flu), but even then, it will likely still kill a large number of people every year (like the flu still does). This isn't for sure, though.
     
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  8. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    Science Based Medicine has done a pretty thorough going over of the pre-print paper that inflated the vaccine adverse reaction stats. Here's one of their articles:

    The dumpster diving VAERS preprint debacle: How did we get here?
     
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  9. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Shrugs. I tried.

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    Question. If this wasn't true, what would be the problem?

    The point I hope is to give people as much info needed so they can make smart decisions. If we suppress and discredit stats because they don't support our views that's doing the opposite.

    People push back because of suppressed information. Give them all and they may just vaccinate.

    Does every stat and info need to support vaccines?

    That's just not realistic.
     
  10. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    So you're so far down the anti-vax rabbit hole that you just have no room in your worldview that vaccines might be safe and effective?
     
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  11. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Shrugs. I tried.

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    I don't agree with the last part. I don't see how not vaccinated means you don't take other measures to protect oneself. Masks and social distancing isn't the same as vaccination. People can do the first two just fine without needing to vaccinate. Not vaccinating has nothing to do with not wanting others to be protected. These aren't arguments that say unvaccinated want to put people in danger in lou of not vaccinated. That's silly.

    I also believe a lot of vaccinated take the other layers for granted and if they didn't research as they tell their counterparts they didn't do its just as much so of taking the vaccine out of ignorance. It really works both ways. There's always variations in why people do and don't do the things they do and believe.

    I doubt that. That's assuming unvaccinated do have COVID and (edit) vaccinated people are home free. COVID doesn't care.

    I mean if CDC said there are no expectations of breakthroughs and all vaccinated people can do whatever they want, that's fine for them. COVID just doesn't care. Now you got these variants and blaming unvaccinated people (and you must blame them ALL not just those who have a choice) isn't the key.

    I honestly believe you guys have more of a problem with people's choices and not being unvaccinated in and of itself.
     
    #551 Unveiled Artist, Sep 20, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
  12. Alienistic

    Alienistic Anti-conformity

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    They have their own conspiracy theories that many thousands of people and doctors are lying about their reports to VAERS.

    And usually always site Gorski as reference.

    I mean, they defend big pharma, government, vaccines as much as the pious defend their god.
     
  13. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Really? And what is your evidence of this? Is it because with millions of workers in this field that no one has brought forth evidence of a conspiracy, so there must be one?:confused::confused:o_Oo_O:confused:o_O
     
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  14. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Shrugs. I tried.

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    Probably trying to vaccinate the world would be a foregone conclusion and it just may be an endemic disease. I doubt "all" unvaccinated just do whatever they want to do just because they don't vaccinate. That's like saying if they don't want to take X meds their doctor gives them they don't want to take any meds. I assume there are unvaccinated who have taken the flu vaccine they just don't want to take the COVID one. A lot of you guys are making not taking the vaccine as if they started the Armageddon because they didn't do what they were told to do.
     
  15. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    You're free to be wrong.

    In general, it seemd the common factor is that vaccine refusal is generally rooted in a misunderstanding of the risks of the pandemic. This misunderstanding also informs their decision to engage in other risky behaviours.

    Of course, the difference is that the ignorant person who gets vaccinated isn't hurting anyone.

    No, it isn't assuming that... and at this point, I don't really care about finding out why you would think it does.


    Of course. I have friends who can't get vaccinated for legitimate medical reasons. There are kids in my life who are too young to get vaccinated.

    These people are unvaccinated through no fault of their own. Vaccine refusers like you have decided to maximize the risk to these people. They haven't done anything immoral, but you have.
     
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  16. Alienistic

    Alienistic Anti-conformity

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    Evidence of what? It is pretty evident to me that many will defend big pharma, government, vaccines at all costs. Also evident that that Gorski is always referenced (certainly not a big pharma shill haha) who will just bad talk and say something isn’t so and this is considered evidence. When you, or Gorski can provide evidence that 6000-12,000 doctors and people are all lying about their reports, then you can post something useful. . . you can then provide evidence for your conspiracy theory that many thousands of people and doctors are liars.
     
  17. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    You have been making claims about the vaccines and conspiracies. You need to do more than just mutter the magic words "Big pharma".

    Come on, give. Where is the actual evidence?
     
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  18. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Veteran Member

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    What suppressed information?
     
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  19. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Veteran Member

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    You really need to read the CDC's disclaimer about VAERS. Plus the other one another poster shared (below).
    VAERS is clearly not what you think it is.

    "VAERS accepts and analyzes reports of possible health problems—also called “adverse events”—after vaccination. As an early warning system, VAERS cannot prove that a vaccine caused a problem. Specifically, a report to VAERS does not mean that a vaccine caused an adverse event. But VAERS can give CDC and FDA important information. If it looks as though a vaccine might be causing a problem, FDA and CDC will investigate further and take action if needed.

    Anyone can submit a report to VAERS — healthcare professionals, vaccine manufacturers, and the general public. VAERS welcomes all reports, regardless of seriousness, and regardless of how likely the vaccine may have been to have caused the adverse event. ...

    VAERS accepts reports from anyone, including patients, family members, healthcare providers and vaccine manufacturers. ...

    VAERS is not designed to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event. A report to VAERS does not mean the vaccine caused the event."


    The dumpster diving VAERS preprint debacle: How did we get here?
     
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  20. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    He may not understand simple statistics. In the hundred million plus people in the US that have had the vaccine something bad has happened to them medically.

    Oh noessss!! HORROR of horrors! In a large population some of people some of them had heart attacks, strokes, car accidents, etc..

    Okay, @Alienistic dropping the sarcasm. In any large population of people within a specific time frame there were will people that have had strokes, heart attacks, even car accidents. So what? For those expected events to be evidence for something wrong with a vaccine there must be a statistical significant increase over the base expected amount to be considered evidence. Aunt Judy may have had the heart attack with or without the vaccine. That she had one is not on its own evidence of something wrong with the vaccine.
     
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