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Featured No Body, No Mind

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by SalixIncendium, Sep 5, 2020.

  1. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Asinine, socialist-leaning, puerile filth
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    Hardly new, but It seems to me that the mind is a process, just like falling is a process that vanishes once it has ended, as with travelling, or any other thing we use to describe changes in state. No change in state - when dead - what is there left? The brain produces the changes (the mind), such that once the brain dies then nothing remains. The mind is the process produced by the brain - no evidence to the contrary.
     
  2. syo

    syo Well-Known Member

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    When we die, we reincarnate. Simple. But for some reason, people hate the idea of* reincarnation.

    *edit
     
    #42 syo, Sep 5, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2020
  3. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    The brain, mind, senses, consciousness ceases, brain death is the defacto standard for kicking the bucket. What you are made off, meat, bones, sinue, various chemicals and elements remain however the meat deteriorates and rots.

    Over time (or in a furnace) even whats left breaks down to it component atoms.

    Those atoms are reused by nature so...

    My atoms may be used to form a little air that future life will breath. The atoms may even go into the development and growth of that life (in this way we are all, to some extent, made from dead people of past generations)

    In on and on until organic life expires on this planet when all we will be is dust, sand, rock... Eroded by wind and reforming

    Then our sun will go bang, scattering our atoms to space which may help to form a new sun and planet, and life on that planet. Sunlight you have helped create shines down on the new life and nurtures it.

    How cool is that? I don't need consciousness after death to know my atoms will continue as long as this universe.

    The first law of thermodynamics ensures this.
     
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  4. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    *SHOCK!* I thought you guys had me make those tapes because you liked listening to me sing. *Hastily cancels the release of his first album*
     
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  5. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Like what Sage Kanada of Vaisheshika Darshana (Hindu Atomic Theory) said as an answer to the same question when on his death bed: "Pilu, Pilu, Pilu" (Atoms, Atoms, Atoms).

    No. There will be no 'I', 'Aupmanyav' to experience anything. One cannot experience anything without body, organs of senses, working brain and mind. Pinch a dead body and see the reaction.
     
  6. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Most of the week, I don't think there's anything beyond death except oblivion. But on Tuesdays and Thursdays, however, I think there might be a possibility of reincarnation. Just I don't think anything of our personalities or self-identities is likely to get reincarnated. Perhaps only something more nebulous, such as our 'karma', whatever that is.

    For the most part though, I think these speculative exercises about what, if anything, happens after death raise more questions than they answer. Also, it seems to be very difficult for most of us to appreciate the full range of possibilities here. Folks tend to limit their thinking to the traditional ruts that humanity fell into thousands of years ago. Stuff like heaven or hell, reincarnation, transmigration, etc. There are a whole lot more possibilities than those.
     
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  7. syo

    syo Well-Known Member

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    It's a TRAP. A ''personality'' is a group of arranged atoms. There is no ''self''. Atoms arrange and rearrange.
     
  8. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    That's very close to my view.

    We also do what's called an 'astral review' of the life just lived to learn from or experiences. Part of the astral review is either happiness, "heaven" or suffering "hell" depending on whether the life just lived was on balance positive or negative.

    Once the review is finished rebirth in a new body takes place to continue on the journey.
     
  9. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
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    We’re thinking similarly. Perhaps I see the afterlife as a longer and more positive experience. Enjoying the beauty in the astral is a big part of it.
     
  10. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Asinine, socialist-leaning, puerile filth
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    You've seen the reviews?
     
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  11. syo

    syo Well-Known Member

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    :oops:
     
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  12. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    the chemical body breaks down into its former undifferentiated state. the electrical body remains, or ethereal, or astral; if you prefer.


    The Law of One Search Results for ‘chemical body’
     
  13. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Science has studied the brain extensively and it has come to the conclusion that there are two states in which a living brain can exist....consciously or unconsciously. If consciousness was separate from the brain, then it would still be aware of what is going on when the brain is in an unconscious state. As demonstrated with those who awaken from a comatose state, even after years, they have no memory of the time that has elapsed. So please explain how this is possible if there is some spiritual part of us that can exist separately from the body.

    The Bible does not teach that a “soul” is a disembodied spirit that can depart and go on living after death. A mind requires a body. When the brain dies, the soul dies. (Ezekiel 18:4)

    “Hard evidence”? Are you serious? There is nothing “hard” about it. The hard evidence they have is for “adaptation”, not running away with the idea that if a little change is detectable, then a big change is inevitable if you give it enough time. That is when assumptions and assertion and best guesses take over from real and provable science.

    So because real science studies these biological processes...hands on, directly with living subjects in real time and with highly technical equipment, we can to an extent, rely on their findings. It is not “theoretical” science which I completely separate from “factual” science. Do you not understand the difference? One is based on observed facts and the other is based on best guesses that are tailored to an accepted, but unprovable premise. If you want to substitute this for God’s direct creation, that is up to you. I think it’s ridiculous to assume that the amazing designs in nature created themselves, undirected. Did your house build itself? Did your computer assemble it’s many intricately designed parts just by accident?

    I do not dismiss science at all...what gave you that idea? Not all science is good and factual. Theory relies as much on faith as belief in God does. I prefer God over science when they conflict....as any good Christian should IMO. Science is not my religion.

    Since this is in a religious debate forum, I am simply giving readers the facts as I understand them from the Bible. I don’t have a foot in two camps because I treat science’s approach to things as godless, which the atheist science buffs here will agree that it is. For the majority of its supporters, science does not entertain belief in an intelligent Creator at all. That is their prerogative, but as a student of the Bible, I put God’s word before the unprovable musings of the godless....and I do not try, as many do, to blend the two. I don’t have to because the Bible explains everything I need to know about how life began and how the human body operates to know that we are living miracles of deliberate and extremely intelligent design.

    From my perspective, when actual science agrees with the Bible it can expand on our knowledge and appreciation for our Creator and the amazing cooperation in his creation. Now that is the science that I love.
     
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  14. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    What if what you experience is God being locked in a staff lounge and whipped with a wet noodle? Is the answer acceptable then?

    (I didn't read the thread, so I hope it hasn't been answered previously.)
     
  15. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    Try this little experiment:

    1. Develop a medical condition that requires surgery under a general anaesthetic
    2. Record all of the things that you remember seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting and smelling while your brain was essentially shut down by the anaesthesiologist
     
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  16. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Sākṣī
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    Done.

    Have you done this? What was your experience? Let compare notes.
     
  17. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    I would love to do such an experiment, but just the second part. Maybe I can buy anaesthetic on Ali Baba.
     
  18. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    Yes I have, on several occasions. I had my tonsils removed at 27, my gall bladder at 45, pretty major spine surgery at 60, and a couple of more minor ones. In every single case, I remember my trip to OR, I remember the prepping, I remember being asked to count backwards from ten, and after 10-9-8-7 I remember absolutely nothing until finding myself wondering what was going on in the recovery room.

    By the way, after the tonsils, I haemorraged, and was sewn up again wide awake...I remember that with blinding clarity, until it was over, and I went into shock and disappeared from my own life again, as I was being wrapped in warm blankets.
     
  19. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Sākṣī
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    Did someone have to tell you why were in the recovery room? Or did you ultimately realize on your own that you were anesthetized and why?
     
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  20. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    IF you get anaestesia you are OUT in a few seconds, hence you don't remember, unless you are very alert those few seconds
    IF you die gradual, I can imagine there are hours of time of slowly letting go this world. Much more time, so more experiences
    Until of course your brain is OUT and dead. Your brain was not dead, only the pain signals were blocked (luckily) or something like that

    I am curious what happens when you are OUT and DEAD. That is different from anaestesia, but you won't get first hand stories of that
     
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