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Featured Nine Pieces Of Evidence That Confirm The Historical Accuracy Of The Bible

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Skwim, Mar 12, 2019.

  1. joelr

    joelr Well-Known Member

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    No, no head scratching at all. Whomever wrote the gospels obviously knew of the Old testament writings right? So they crafted a story where the prophecies came true.
    How hard is that to understand?

    However there are hundreds of things god said in the OT that never came to pass so how do you deal with those? Most notable is the Jews were going to be the master race, they would own all the best lands and other nations would be subjugate to them.
    Instead they were invaded over and over. Not even the amount of invasions predicted in the OT?
     
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  2. joelr

    joelr Well-Known Member

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    Satan works for god. They punish people together. This modern re-telling of satan is odd.
     
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  3. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    upload_2019-4-8_17-0-19.jpeg
    Paul, Peter, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are the writers of the gospel of Jesus Christ. These gentlemen met together and crafted a story, after reading the old testament scrolls which ultimately led to the establishment of a religion, the basis of faith of many so called Christian faiths. A carefully written gospel translated in different languages and people are getting loco over it that it has become the best selling book of all time.

    And as you said about it, the gospel which contains failed prophecies and a bunch of Jews who were losers but despite of this, people continue to buy, read and believe the book and there is even an online version of this thing in different languages and different versions, Isn't that amazing or what? And in this time of artificial intelligence and nano technology, it remains the best seller. WTF is this? [WTF = Where's To Fail]

    Modern retelling?
    If it's from the Bible, it was written about 2,000 years ago.
    They didn't have windmills yet which produces cancer.

    Satan used to work. Ezekiel 28:14
    He was thrown from heaven and fell here. Revelation 12:9
    He got the pink slip.John 8:44
     
  4. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    The Gospels are all anonymous and almost certainly not written by the people that they were named for. Their contradictions between themselves and with history is how we know that they are not the "word of God". Why would you claim that your God was an incompetent liar? You seem to do that quite often.
     
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  5. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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  6. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    For someone that claims to be a Christian it appears that you have no understanding of the Bible at all. By the way, it was the early Catholics that gave the names to the Gospels.
     
    #506 Subduction Zone, Apr 8, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
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  7. joelr

    joelr Well-Known Member

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    They are not. According to scholarship the gospels were gathered together sometime in the 2nd century and named. They all used an unusual title marker in Greek called "Kata" which basically means "as told to me by". So Mark is called "As told to me by Mark".
    Even the Wiki entry on the gospels reflects that fact that they are anonymous:

    "Despite the traditional ascriptions all four are anonymous, and none were written by eyewitnesses.[13] Like the rest of the New Testament, they were written in Greek"
    Gospel - Wikipedia

    But if you want to hear it from an actual PhD biblical historian go to 4:06:




    We also know Mark was first - "The Gospel of Mark probably dates from c. AD 66–70,"
    and the other 3 were copied from Mark. This is known because there are literally pages and pages or verbatim Greek among all 4 gospels. Each gospel then goes off and creates different versions of the story. But there is far too much in verbatim for that to be a coincidence. They either used Mark as a source of there was a "Q" - common source gospel.

    No it isn't amazing at all. Is it amazing there are millions of Mormons? Or that millions of people (hundreds of millions, possibly billions) of people believe Roswell was an actual ufo crash? Or that there are billions of Hindu?
    It sounds like you are going for an argument to popular appeal but that doesn't work because besides obvious reasons before becoming law in Rome Christianity was only 5% of the population.
    Then it became a law and was enforced through evangelism and militant enforcement. This is well known, No one has ever made beliefs in Roswell and alien abductions law yet the majority of people in the U.S. believe there is a government cover-up of crashed aliens.

    I witnessed people believing in religion with zero evidence firsthand, and they did it because their parents did it and so on. It's not hard to see that people believe supernatural things without evidence and that it isn't a demonstration of it's truth.

    If you go by religious population as a marker for truth then Muslims must currently be more true:
    "Studies in the 21st century show that, in terms of percentage and worldwide spread, Islam is the fastest-growing major religion in the world."
    Growth of religion - Wikipedia

    But what matters to truth is what does scholarship say? The general public believes in haunted houses and big foot. Are historians 100% convinced of the historical accuracy of the gospels? No, almost the entire historicity field considers the supernatural aspects to be myth.

    "Historicity of Jesus - Wikipedia
    "The historical reliability of the gospels refers to the reliability and historic character of the four New Testament gospels as historical documents. Little in the four canonical gospels is considered to be historically reliable."

    By modern re-telling I mean this idea that satan is this evil force who is completely against god and god's mortal enemy and similar.
    In the earlier myths Satan worked for and with God to do his evil bidding. Like a hit man.
    There is this more modern idea that satan is tempting people and is at odds with god and all this.
    Well god used him as a super villian. So his acts were encouraged by god?


    "In 2 Samuel 24, Yahweh sends the "Angel of Yahweh" to inflict a plague against Israel for three days, killing 70,000 people as punishment for David having taken a census without his approval. 1 Chronicles 21:1 repeats this story, but replaces the "Angel of Yahweh" with an entity referred to as "a satan".

    "Numbers 22:22, which describes the Angel of Yahweh confronting Balaam on his donkey: "Balaam's departure aroused the wrath of Elohim, and the Angel of Yahweh stood in the road as a satan against him."

    In 1 Samuel 16:14-23 Yahweh sends a "troubling spirit" to torment King Saul as a mechanism to ingratiate David with the king. In 1 Kings 22:19-25, the prophet Micaiah describes to King Ahab a vision of Yahweh sitting on his throne surrounded by the Host of Heaven. Yahweh asks the Host which of them will lead Ahab astray. A "spirit", whose name is not specified, but who is analogous to the satan, volunteers to be "a Lying Spirit in the mouth of all his Prophets".

    "Job 1:6-8 Yahweh asks, "Have you considered My servant Job?" The satan replies by urging Yahweh to let him torture Job, promising that Job will abandon his faith at the first tribulation. Yahweh consents; the satan destroys Job's servants and flocks, yet Job refuses to condemn Yahweh.The first scene repeats itself, with the satan presenting himself to Yahweh alongside the other "sons of God". Yahweh points out Job's continued faithfulness, to which the satan insists that more testing is necessary; Yahweh once again gives him permission to test Job."

    Zechariah 3:1-7 ...on trial with Yahweh as the judge and the satan standing as the prosecutor.
     
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  8. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    There are many things in your posts that I could dice and slice and cook for dinner.

    However, if you want me to focus on one - place you best foot forward - say a few [maybe 3] verses and a prayer hoping that you would be enlightened.

    So I would pick one from the many you wrote:

    "If you go by religious population as a marker for truth then Muslims must currently be more true:
    "Studies in the 21st century show that, in terms of percentage and worldwide spread, Islam is the fastest-growing major religion in the world."
    Growth of religion - Wikipedia"

    The many, the merrier would be a fact in a party, but not on all occasions. - matrimony is one, salvation is also another.

    Luke 13:23-24 New International Version (NIV)
    Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?

    He said to them, “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.

    If I go by religious population as marker those who found the narrow door will be saved. What is this narrow door?

    Matthew 7:13-14 New International Version (NIV)
    “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

    If the religion is easy to find and easy to become, Jesus said that leads to destruction. If the religion's member is many, you can bet your donkey, it is not the narrow gate.
     
  9. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    I would appreciate it if you have only one focused topic
    not more than 3 verses
    Your first paragraph has Mormons, Roswell, Hindu, Rome, US Government
    My eyes almost crossed.:eek:
     
  10. joelr

    joelr Well-Known Member

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    Where is that "dice and slice"? All you did was post scripture? The point is that using an argument to popularity doesn't show something to be true. People believing in things like alien abductions and religions does not prove it's real.

    But you actually contradicted yourself because you suggested that because Christianity was popular and growing it must be true but then posted scripture that says only a few will be saved?
    That makes no sense?
     
  11. joelr

    joelr Well-Known Member

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    The text you quoted from me is exactly ONE topic? It's examples of false beliefs that millions of people hold.
    You said "t it has become the best selling book of all time." I assumed you were saying "look it's so popular it must be true".
    If that was not your meaning then just forget what I said. If it was then I'm saying popular appeal does not mean it's true. How hard is that to parse?

    However when you said this - "These gentlemen met together and crafted a story," about the gospels that is not true. Like the PhD historian said we do not know who wrote them, the names were added later and the Greek "kata" designation added which means "as told to me by Mark".
     
  12. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    I have quoted the scriptures correctly.
    Only few find it - according to the Lord Jesus Christ.

    [​IMG]

    I never had the position that the larger the population of a religion, the more authentic it is.
    I also never had the position that the oldest the religion is, the more valid it is
    I have always taken the position that the scriptures is the word of God, the truth and the power of God for which man should be saved.

    Christianity today is divided into so many denominations.
    And they do not agree with each other because they all have gone astray.

    With regards to other religions and UFO religions - seen that and it is entertaining.
    I still don't know why these gods and aliens are blue.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    Its the book - the Bible - I am referring to.

    Not the groups of religions
     
  14. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    But your own interpretation is terribly flawed. After all, according to you your God is a liar.
     
  15. joelr

    joelr Well-Known Member

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    Right then never mind the argument to popularity response, I mis-interpreted your post.

    I don't think it's possible to have a Christian group that is always in agreement? If a group takes a particular stance it can often times be refuted by contradictions in scripture.
    There are over 500 contradictions here:

    Contradictions as listed in the SAB book

    while some are inconsequential others could be an important belief among a particular group then someone else could come along and be on the other side of the argument and then you have to split up.


    Protestants say just "faith alone" works:
    They are justified freely because they have not done anything nor given anything in return, but by faith alone they have been made holy by the gift of God.” For we are justified by faith, not by works of the law, as Scripture says (Gal. 2:16)

    While Catholics list a crapload of other verses that say otherwise.
    Who's right? There is no answer. That's just one thing, there are so many contradictions to disagree over.
     
  16. joelr

    joelr Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what you mean?
    What about the bible?
     
  17. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    This my point regarding the bible and the Christian religion.

    The Bible is the word of God, even when people develop their own Skeptic Annotated Bible listing down the contradictions [allegedly], the Bible is undoubtedly the best seller of all time but to us it is the power of God that would lead man to salvation.

    With regards to the different world religions. They are in conflict with each other because they are man-made rules, man made worship and each of them having their own way of worship. Who are they worshiping? Their own ideas of god or gods they presume, assume or dreamt about. Maybe there are around 40,000 Christian denominations. Even Judaism has its denominations. Islam has two divisions. Hinduism has 300,000,000 gods and goddesses, so there are plenty to go around. Buddhism has schools of thought, so there are different thoughts. Are they all correct? Then we should be members to all of them unless there is only one truth.

    With regards to irreligion. It is like hearing somebody, I don't have a father. I just came up from the ground, hitch a ride with the old faithful and presto I'm here. It defies logic and sounds like magic.

    On this thread, I wrote that the Bible contains prophecies.
    I have shown the prophecies of Rev 6:1-8 and the historical events that it pertained to.

    1st seal - white horse - Nicene Christianity becomes a state religion 380 AD
    2nd seal - red horse - Crusade expeditions occurred between 1096 and 1291 AD
    3rd seal - black horse - Great Famine in Europe 1315–1317
    4rth seal - pale horse - Black Death 1347-1351

    #408 MJFlores, Mar 20, 2019

    When the Bible was completed, the prophecies shined as history unfolded.
    Example of the prophecy written:

    Revelation 6:9-11 New International Version (NIV)
    When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.



    Prophecy fulfilled, History:

    The Inquisition was a powerful office set up within the Catholic Church to root out and punish heresy throughout Europe and the Americas. Beginning in the 12th century and continuing for hundreds of years, the Inquisition is infamous for the severity of its tortures and its persecution of Jews and Muslims. Its worst manifestation was in Spain, where the Spanish Inquisition was a dominant force for more than 200 years, resulting in some 32,000 executions.

    https://www.history.com/topics/religion/inquisition
     
  18. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    The Gospel writers tried to make Jesus fit the expected anointed warrior king like David who would vanquish their enemies the Romans.
     
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  19. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    You have a lot to learn about prophecies. Reinterpreting prophecies and making them match reality after the fact makes them failed prophecies.

    Do you want to learn of do you only want to believe? There are all kinds of crazy to half crazy, and even a sane one here and there, that can reinterpret the Bible to match their personal fantasies. The problem is that they tend to disagree with each other. That is not a pathway to the truth.
     
  20. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Fundamentalism is lazy scholarship. The children's stories like Noah and the Tower of Babel, the Exodus and parting of the Red Sea are easy to understand.
     
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