New Zealand terror attack and FIANZ response

[ChristineM]

Bad people do bad things, .


Being raised catholic by parents does not make one catholic. If that's the case, anyone raised with a religion are always that religion. You included. So what denomination are you?

The teaching temper's the person, it has an effect on their thinking

I was CofE, and technically still am despite being out of the church for more than 35 years the records of my baptism exist

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

'Police have shot and killed a man who entered a west Auckland supermarket and injured six people on Friday afternoon.

The man - who was on a terror watchlist - carried out the "ISIS-inspired" attack at the LynnMall Countdown with a knife just after 2pm.'

'The Federation of Islamic Associations of New Zealand (FIANZ) has released a statement condemning today's attack, saying it has "resurrected the trauma" of the Christchurch terror attack.

"Terrorists who do such inhumane and vile acts do not belong to any religion, said Ibrar Sheikh, President of FIANZ.'

Source: Police shoot man dead after terror attack at Countdown LynnMall in Auckland leaves multiple people injured

Personally I take issue with Ibrar Sheikh's response on two counts.

1. It is dishonest to say that a person who belongs to a religion does not belong to any religion. The person in question had a religion and that religion was 'Islamic State'

2. I think it tarnishes the image of the non-religious to say all the terrorists belong to us.

Thoughts?

In my opinion.

I must agree with you completely.

imo, much of the terror in the world today comes from people in a religion.

I know, we’re in the minority daniel

 

[ChristineM]

Absolutely not true. Terror has been perpetrated by numerous atheistic/ Communist groups. Think, for example, of Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia between 1975-79. Somewhere between 1.5 and 2 million people died in their transformation of Cambodia into a socialist state.

Pol Pot was raised Buddhist and christian. He was Buddhist and never renounced his faith.

 

[ChristineM]

IRA often denounces the Roman Catholic Hierarchy

The Theology of the IRA on JSTOR

Yet more than 99% of their membership is catholic.

 

[Polymath257]

The Unabomber leaps to mind.

SDS does as well.

 

[Polymath257]

I always consider those raised in religion (including myself) have some of that religion ingrained.

I was raised Lutheran. It didn't stick.

 

[ChristineM]

I was raised Lutheran. It didn't stick.

I am pretty sure some of the teaching is still there and tempers decisions even if it's subconsciously.

 

[RestlessSoul]

It is like denying that the Holy Inquisition was Catholic Church Terrorism. It was.
Are IRA people all Catholics? Yes they are.

I do not understand why we should deny that certain people are of a particular religion.

.

The Spanish Inquisition was conducted in the name of the Catholic Church. The IRA's campaign was never endorsed by any church, nor did the terrorists themselves ever claim allegiance to any religion.

The IRA was a Republican, Nationalist organisation, containing also, a handful of revolutionary Marxists. That the majority - not all - were Catholic is hardly surprising given that Ireland is a predominantly Catholic country. The Loyalist, communities in the North were and are predominantly Protestant, but to describe this conflict as Catholic vs Protestant is to misunderstand it's historic and economic roots, and to confuse national identity with religious identity.

In answer to the question, "Are IRA people all Catholic?", no, they are not all. There have been, throughout the history of Irish Republicanism, more than a few high profile activists who happened top be Protestant. Just as there have always been some Catholics who identify as British rather than Irish.

Probably there were also plenty of atheists on both sides, but no one is trying to associate atheism with either IRA or UDA terrorism, because that would be absurd. As absurd as the statement "All terrorism is inspired by religion".

 

[RestlessSoul]

I wasn't entirely sure what was meant by 'non religious inspired terrorism'. Of course, there has been a lot of terror attacks that had nothing to do with religion (or atheism, for that matter).
Ultimately, terror attacks I'm aware of have been inspired by some sort of positive belief...something that atheists can/do of course have and can be motivated by.

The RAF for example, were largely motivated by anti-fascism, with their own flavour of left wing political views heavily influenced by the particulars of German post-war politics.

The Mau Mau is a strange group to include as an example of 'non religious' terror, though. The nature of the oath was pretty deliberately structured in a ritualistic and religious way. Still, they had clear motivations that had little to do with religion, so perhaps that's what you meant?

The ANC...well, much like the Mau Mau, there were legitimate grievances against pretty gross colonial oppression. That doesn't justify all actions taken (particulary in the case of Kenya) but nationalism is a powerful force when combined with a minority government.

The Angry Brigade reference confused me a little. Sure, they're terrorists, but from memory they killed no-one, and in fact deliberately tried to limit damage. Anyways...no dramas, just not used to seeing them in a list with groups like the IRA, or the Mau Mau.

So...I guess you're just saying not all terror is religiously motivated? I'd go further and say the majority is politically motivated.

As it happens, I agree with pretty much all of that.

As to the justice of the ANC's cause - one man's terrorist is, as we know, another man's freedom fighter.

Either way, if you want to understand the roots of any conflict, begin by looking at political and economic circumstances in which they arise. Religion will always come a long way down the list of causative factors.

 

[Kenny]

'Police have shot and killed a man who entered a west Auckland supermarket and injured six people on Friday afternoon.

The man - who was on a terror watchlist - carried out the "ISIS-inspired" attack at the LynnMall Countdown with a knife just after 2pm.'

'The Federation of Islamic Associations of New Zealand (FIANZ) has released a statement condemning today's attack, saying it has "resurrected the trauma" of the Christchurch terror attack.

"Terrorists who do such inhumane and vile acts do not belong to any religion, said Ibrar Sheikh, President of FIANZ.'

Source: Police shoot man dead after terror attack at Countdown LynnMall in Auckland leaves multiple people injured

Personally I take issue with Ibrar Sheikh's response on two counts.

1. It is dishonest to say that a person who belongs to a religion does not belong to any religion. The person in question had a religion and that religion was 'Islamic State'

2. I think it tarnishes the image of the non-religious to say all the terrorists belong to us.

Thoughts?

In my opinion.

I think you are reading into what he said.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Pol Pot was raised Buddhist and christian. He was Buddhist and never renounced his faith.

What absolute rubbish. Why would a Buddhist go about destroying members of the Sangha (the monks) where ever they were found? Try asking Cambodians if Pol Pot was a Buddhist!

Pol Pot wanted to establish a Communist state. Communism is atheistic.

 

[ChristineM]

What absolute rubbish. Why would a Buddhist go about destroying members of the Sangha (the monks) where ever they were found? Try asking Cambodians if Pol Pot was a Buddhist!

Pol Pot wanted to establish a Communist state. Communism is atheistic.

Learn some history, its far more accurate than guessing

 

[danieldemol]

I think you are reading into what he said.

I think you and those who agree with you are reading into what he said.

What he said was, "Terrorists who do such inhumane and vile acts do not belong to any religion"

Taken at face value that means they are not members or belonging to any religion.

But the terrorist in question did belong to a religion, and that religion was Islamic State.

In my opinion

 

[Kenny]

I think you and those who agree with you are reading into what he said.

What he said was, "Terrorists who do such inhumane and vile acts do not belong to any religion"

Taken at face value that means they are not members or belonging to any religion.

But the terrorist in question did belong to a religion, and that religion was Islamic State.

In my opinion

Agreed that it was a religious man that did it which was Islamic State whether or not the person making the comment didn't agree with it. It would be like me saying, "Westwood Baptist Church shouldn't be labelled a Christian Church" even though they are. We are just saying that they are a bad representation.

I am sure that even atheists would say, "Atheists dictators are a bad representation of atheism".

 

[danieldemol]

Agreed that it was a religious man that did it which was Islamic State whether or not the person making the comment didn't agree with it. It would be like me saying, "Westwood Baptist Church shouldn't be labelled a Christian Church" even though they are. We are just saying that they are a bad representation.

I am sure that even atheists would say, "Atheists dictators are a bad representation of atheism".

I think the competent way to have said that would have been, 'Islamic State are a bad representation of Islam' or words to that effect.

In my opinion.

 

[ajay0]

My sympathies both for the victims and the misguided perpetrator brainwashed by religious ideologues who know nothing of spirituality.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Learn some history, its far more accurate than guessing

Are you denying that Pol Pot was a Marxist-Leninist or that he established Kampuchea on a Communist model?

Were you aware that the Khmer Rouge banned all religion?

 

[ChristineM]

Are you denying that Pol Pot was a Marxist-Leninist or that he established Kampuchea on a Communist model?

Were you aware that the Khmer Rouge banned all religion?

You read my posts so don't make assumptions to massage your ego, are you denying that pol pot was raised Buddhist with a catholic education?

 

[Regiomontanus]

Are you denying that Pol Pot was a Marxist-Leninist or that he established Kampuchea on a Communist model?

Were you aware that the Khmer Rouge banned all religion?

Facts often do not matter to some people, I have noticed. Attacking religion at every opportunity is what motivates them.

 

[ChristineM]

Facts often do not matter to some people, I have noticed. Attacking religion at every opportunity is what motivates them.

Or perhaps providing facts that you don't like. Please show me where i have denied pol pots politics and nationalism?