Good post -- thanks.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
New Liberal Mosque Set Up in Berlin
- Thread starter Kirran
- Start date
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Yeah, I guess if you really need to hold onto an outmoded way of thinking by massaging it with "Western" sensitivities, I suppose. That minor group of people doesn't even chart on the overall numbers of Muslims following the mainstream thought however. A scintilla of a percent is hardly noteworthy - in fact, the only reason it is worthy of note is because it goes against the overwhelming majority of current Muslim thought worldwide and throughout the centuries.
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Gladly.
Surah 2:191-193 "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"
Surah 2:216 "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Surah 3:151 "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority"
Surah 4:76 "Those who believe, fight in the Cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve, fight in the cause of Taghut (Satan, etc.). So fight you against the friends of Shaitan (Satan); Ever feeble indeed is the plot of Shaitan (Satan)."
That's just for starters.
I can find endless passages in Quran and Hadith that say you are wrong.
“There is no compulsion where the religion is concerned.” (Holy Quran: 2/ 256)
“God does not forbid you from being good to those who have not fought you in the religion or driven you from your homes, or from being just towards them. God loves those who are just.” (Surat al-Mumtahana, 8)
Quran (8:61): But if they incline to peace, you also incline to it....
Quran (60:8): Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion and did not drive you out of your homes.
Jami at-Tirmidhi 2510: "...You will not enter Paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love each other... spread the peace among each other"
“God does not forbid you from being good to those who have not fought you in the religion or driven you from your homes, or from being just towards them. God loves those who are just.” (Surat al-Mumtahana, 8)
Quran (8:61): But if they incline to peace, you also incline to it....
Quran (60:8): Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion and did not drive you out of your homes.
Jami at-Tirmidhi 2510: "...You will not enter Paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love each other... spread the peace among each other"
Ibn Rushd Mosque is being set up in Germany, spearheaded by Seyran Ates, a Turkish-born German Muslim woman. There'll be two imams leading Friday prayers, one man and one woman. They've also reached out to Imam Ludovic-Mohamed Zahed, a fairly prominent figure in the pro-LGBT progressive Muslim sphere.
This is one of a growing number of such mosques to be found in the Western world, where it is safe for them to be set up openly. They are building on grassroots groups which meet informally for prayers etc, such as Imaan in the UK and these kinds of people.
Source.
Please note that this is in Discussion, not Debates
This is good. Like Trump said, Islam needs to deal with extremism. Islam needs to provide it's youth with an alternative to extremism. This is something the United State can't do.
Notanumber
A Free Man
But seriously
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
An honest question here... the way the above quote reads, does it imply that if someone did "fight against you on account of religion" or did "drive you out of your home", Allah then forbids you to deal justly and kindly with them? I can understand the "kindly" part. But when is it okay not to deal with someone "justly?"
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
You're taking those verses out of context.
Also, if the peaceful verses cancel out the violent verses then it's just as vacuous to claim violence is a part of Islam as peace is a part of Islam because the violent verses would also cancel out the peaceful verses.
Oh and Jami at-Tirmidhi is not trustworthy.
Last edited:
Get a room, you guys!
By which I mean, we've all seen these debates ad nauseam. Feel free to have them, but please do so elsewhere. Thanks.
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Sorry, force of habit.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Actually, yes. Toward being rational and civilized is indeed the right direction.
Notanumber
A Free Man
I wonder what part of the Quran was being followed here - Islamic State supporters celebrate Manchester attack online
That's good news.
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
I agree, this is by no means original Islam. Yet at the same time why not just make a different religion? At least keep it real
Ibn Rushd Mosque is being set up in Germany, spearheaded by Seyran Ates, a Turkish-born German Muslim woman. There'll be two imams leading Friday prayers, one man and one woman. They've also reached out to Imam Ludovic-Mohamed Zahed, a fairly prominent figure in the pro-LGBT progressive Muslim sphere.
This is one of a growing number of such mosques to be found in the Western world, where it is safe for them to be set up openly. They are building on grassroots groups which meet informally for prayers etc, such as Imaan in the UK and these kinds of people.
Source.
Please note that this is in Discussion, not Debates
I think these mosques are a fantastic initiative bound to win the good pleasure of God
Ricktheheretic
"Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law"
-c
I have long respected the Koran for it's scientific knowledge. I am an agnostic with long theistic ties, I know the Bible is said to contain knowledge of science, but the Koran has a lot more marvelous things to say about nature. Mohammed couldn't have known about the process of fetal development, yet passages in the Koran explain how man came from a "seed" in a "fixed place" and became " a blood clot or leech" which became "a lump of flesh" in which "bones were made" and "covered in flesh." There are similarities in how we know fetuses develop. There is a passage about two seas that co-merge but don't mix, like the Mediterranean Sea and the Atlantic Ocean that come together but salt from one doesn't mix with the other. The Koran describes Allah making "mountains" in the sky, clouds. It also says that the earth and the heavens where once one, like in the Big Bang theory that states that everything was once in one place. There are references to "periods" instead of days of creation, leaving time for evolution. There are verses that refer to the "seven heavens" or "tracts" above the earth, showing knowledge of the movement of astral bodies, of an always moving universe. There is a mention of "two easts and two wests" in the Koran, knowledge that earth is round. I am also impressed by some of the Koranic ethics. In the Surah of "The Women" women receive excellent treatment compared to their status in Christian countries even in the latter half of the 19th century, women are allowed to own property and be schooled and can leave a man who is abusive. The Koran says "for however has killed one man it is the same as if killed all mankind. For whoever has saved one life it is the same as if he saved all mankind." I can't remember the exact numbers for the different Surahs, but you can read the Koran free at Texts of Islam I know some Arab political parties call for a social order based on socialism, common ownership of land and redistribution of wealth. This sounds more like what the Koran says - that everyone should take care of the poor, than what some so-called Muslims (including Muslim fundamentalists who are millionaires) believe. Homepage <a party for Arab justice and socialism IslamAhmadiyya - Ahmadiyya Muslim Community - Al Islam Online - Official Website <an Islamic denomination that believes in total peace and opposes all terrorism BTW I am of White Anglo-Saxon Protestant origin, and agnostic, but I have a lot of respect for Islam and Islamic Humanism. I'm glad that the Islamic community opens up to GLBT, I don't see anything in any Abrahamic scripture that condemns natural homosexual orientation. I know that homosexual cult-prostitution was a common practice in Canaan and is condemned in Old Testament scripture, and that in ancient Rome there was some thing similar which was condemned by St. Paul. Like the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah, which wasn't homosexuality but "going after strange flesh," meaning all kinds sexual perversion, doing things just because they "feel good" and without love.
I know there are alternatives for gay Christians, Jews and, Muslims Gay Christian 101 - Affirming Bible truth and God's good news for all LGBTs.
Ibn Rushd Mosque is being set up in Germany, spearheaded by Seyran Ates, a Turkish-born German Muslim woman. There'll be two imams leading Friday prayers, one man and one woman. They've also reached out to Imam Ludovic-Mohamed Zahed, a fairly prominent figure in the pro-LGBT progressive Muslim sphere.
This is one of a growing number of such mosques to be found in the Western world, where it is safe for them to be set up openly. They are building on grassroots groups which meet informally for prayers etc, such as Imaan in the UK and these kinds of people.
Source.
Please note that this is in Discussion, not Debates
I have long respected the Koran for it's scientific knowledge. I am an agnostic with long theistic ties, I know the Bible is said to contain knowledge of science, but the Koran has a lot more marvelous things to say about nature. Mohammed couldn't have known about the process of fetal development, yet passages in the Koran explain how man came from a "seed" in a "fixed place" and became " a blood clot or leech" which became "a lump of flesh" in which "bones were made" and "covered in flesh." There are similarities in how we know fetuses develop. There is a passage about two seas that co-merge but don't mix, like the Mediterranean Sea and the Atlantic Ocean that come together but salt from one doesn't mix with the other. The Koran describes Allah making "mountains" in the sky, clouds. It also says that the earth and the heavens where once one, like in the Big Bang theory that states that everything was once in one place. There are references to "periods" instead of days of creation, leaving time for evolution. There are verses that refer to the "seven heavens" or "tracts" above the earth, showing knowledge of the movement of astral bodies, of an always moving universe. There is a mention of "two easts and two wests" in the Koran, knowledge that earth is round. I am also impressed by some of the Koranic ethics. In the Surah of "The Women" women receive excellent treatment compared to their status in Christian countries even in the latter half of the 19th century, women are allowed to own property and be schooled and can leave a man who is abusive. The Koran says "for however has killed one man it is the same as if killed all mankind. For whoever has saved one life it is the same as if he saved all mankind." I can't remember the exact numbers for the different Surahs, but you can read the Koran free at Texts of Islam I know some Arab political parties call for a social order based on socialism, common ownership of land and redistribution of wealth. This sounds more like what the Koran says - that everyone should take care of the poor, than what some so-called Muslims (including Muslim fundamentalists who are millionaires) believe. Homepage <a party for Arab justice and socialism IslamAhmadiyya - Ahmadiyya Muslim Community - Al Islam Online - Official Website <an Islamic denomination that believes in total peace and opposes all terrorism BTW I am of White Anglo-Saxon Protestant origin, and agnostic, but I have a lot of respect for Islam and Islamic Humanism. I'm glad that the Islamic community opens up to GLBT, I don't see anything in any Abrahamic scripture that condemns natural homosexual orientation. I know that homosexual cult-prostitution was a common practice in Canaan and is condemned in Old Testament scripture, and that in ancient Rome there was some thing similar which was condemned by St. Paul. Like the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah, which wasn't homosexuality but "going after strange flesh," meaning all kinds sexual perversion, doing things just because they "feel good" and without love.
I know there are alternatives for gay Christians, Jews and, Muslims Gay Christian 101 - Affirming Bible truth and God's good news for all LGBTs.
Last edited:
moon light
even mind can not be trusted only inspiration
It's really a beginner's words
All the previous verses speak of fighting against injustice and against the aggressor and not against the different
Google will not help you in this
You have to learn
Notanumber
A Free Man
If it is so difficult to understand then that would be a very good reason for re-writing it to modern literary standards.
It is a simple historical fact that religions often influence and originate other religions.
I would also argue that questioning traditions and caring for their relevance and meaning is one of the main principles of healthy religion - or for that matter, of healthy life.