New Jersey is the third state to ban the sales of Tesla Electric Cars. Why?

[Dirty Penguin]

Tesla, New Jersey clash over direct sales to customers | Reuters

(Reuters) - Elon Musk wants to keep selling electric cars directly to the public in New Jersey, but on Tuesday the state said no, insisting instead that Tesla Motors Inc offer its cars through an auto franchise rather than its own stores.


New Jersey Governor Chris Christie's administration approved a rule requiring sales of all new cars to go through franchises.

"Having previously issued two dealer licenses to Tesla, this regulation would be a complete reversal to the long-standing position of (New Jersey Motor Vehicle Commission) on Tesla's stores," Tesla said on its blog.

Later a spokesperson for the administration said the following....

"This administration does not find it appropriate to unilaterally change the way cars are sold in New Jersey without legislation and Tesla has been aware of this position since the beginning," Roberts said in an emailed statement.

(emphasis mine).


The car is actually made here in the US. What's wrong with a little free market competition?


What are your thoughts on this move?



P.S. If you haven't seen the car in action then head over to the web or youtube and search for Tesla Model S.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Why would they do that? I don't understand what the problem there is. Is it because it's an electric car and the politicians who are against it have ties to the oil industry or something?

 

[BBTimeless]

Why would they do that? I don't understand what the problem there is. Is it because it's an electric car and the politicians who are against it have ties to the oil industry or something?

I would imagine that has something to do with it.

 

[Revoltingest]

Isn't it obvious? It's not about electric cars.
The car dealership lobby doesn't want competition.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Why would they do that? I don't understand what the problem there is. Is it because it's an electric car and the politicians who are against it have ties to the oil industry or something?

It sounds like it to me. This has happened in Texas and Arizona. I believe they tried to ban them from direct sales in North Carolina but it failed. I heard similar measures are underway in other states. Here in Virginia they have a showroom but at one point were not allowed to make direct sales. Tesla launched a lawsuit here in VA. but after a compromise was allowed to get a single dealership license. Now I wonder what the compromises were....

 

[Revoltingest]

Is any brand or type of car in NJ sold directly?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Is any brand or type of car in NJ sold directly?

I'd have to check.

This was from last year but the line I snipped may help.

State laws keep Tesla from selling cars - Chicago Tribune

No fewer than 48 states ban or limit direct sales of automobiles. Some states allow Tesla to sell its cars through company-owned stores. Some allow Tesla to open showrooms but not sell cars in them.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'd have to check.
This was from last year but the line I snipped may help.
State laws keep Tesla from selling cars - Chicago Tribune

Tesla seems to be making this all about them, when the larger problem is crony capitalistic protectionism.
(Say that fast 3 times!)
But there's an up side to this....every Tesla which doesn't sell saves taxpayers around $10K in subsidies (varying with state).

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Tesla seems to be making this all about them, when the larger problem is crony capitalistic protectionism.

IMO it's about both.

But there's an up side to this....every Tesla which doesn't sell saves taxpayers around $10K in subsidies (varying with state).

Heck, I'd forgo the subsidy if it meant they could sell in the state. But a tax credit to me is less of a tax credit to the oil industry. And I'm going to turn right back around and put those saving back into the local economy.

 

[Revoltingest]

Heck, I'd forgo the subsidy if it meant they could sell in the state. But a tax credit to me is less of a tax credit to the oil industry.

It doesn't work that way. For every Tesla not sold, the foregone $10K taxpayer subsidy doesn't go to the oil industry.
It's just that much less money which gov will have to get by taxing us, borrowing from China, or printing. In fact,
fossil fuel users pay the taxes which maintain our roads. Electric vehicles get a free ride. (Although....in SE MI,
electric cares are powered mostly by coal.)

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Isn't it obvious? It's not about electric cars.
The car dealership lobby doesn't want competition.

Exactly.

If Tesla was big enough and gave the bulk of their money to politicians more so than their employees and shareholders, they could demand a bailout funded by tax revenue so they don't go out of business. Because we all know how great bailouts are. [/snark]

 

[Dirty Penguin]

It doesn't work that way. For every Tesla not sold, the foregone $10K taxpayer subsidy doesn't go to the oil industry.
It's just that much less money which gov will have to get by taxing us, borrowing from China, or printing. In fact,
fossil fuel users pay the taxes which maintain our roads. Electric vehicles get a free ride. (Although....in SE MI,
electric cares are powered mostly by coal.)

Yea, there's a lot of truth to this. Still.....I wouldn't be opposed to not getting a subsidy if the car was allowed to be sold in the state. I wonder if at some point they do away with the subsidy as more and more Nissan Leaf's and Chevy Cruz's are sold....

 

[Valjean]

Right wing, anti free market hypocrisy.

Any time there's money in play there seem to be corporate vultures wanting a piece of the action. If you don't have the money to fight them off they'll gobble you up.

 

[Ouroboros]

The car is actually made here in the US. What's wrong with a little free market competition?


What are your thoughts on this move?

Correction, they didn't ban sales of Tesla cars, they only banned direct sales from a manufacturer to the customers.

If you go to a Ford dealership, you don't go to Ford Inc. Ford is not selling cars directly, but makes cars and can sell them through dealerships. Tesla doesn't sell through dealerships but directly to the customers. And they do so to save money for the customer.

So my correction here is just that Tesla can still make cars and sell cars, but they have to go through dealers in those states, so the car will be more expensive.

With that being said, it's silly that they can't sell directly. It saves us money.

 

[Revoltingest]

Right wing, anti free market hypocrisy.
Any time there's money in play there seem to be corporate vultures wanting a piece of the action. If you don't have the money to fight them off they'll gobble you up.

Crony capitalism is a problem on both the right & the left.

 

[Revoltingest]

Exactly.

If Tesla was big enough and gave the bulk of their money to politicians more so than their employees and shareholders, they could demand a bailout funded by tax revenue so they don't go out of business. Because we all know how great bailouts are. [/snark]

Ironically, Tesla has fared better than other gov subsidized companies. They repaid their 1/2 bill fed loans (.9% for a portion), & they do have a successful product (with @$10K/car subsidies), albeit a rich man's (& woman's) toy. But there are far more cost effective ways to address energy & environmental concerns than baubles for the one percenters.

 

[Avi1001]

So far, all I have been able to find out about franchise taxes, is that Texas has been giving a reduction:

https://www.tscpa.org/eweb/pdf/TodaysCPA/2013/FrachiseChangesJulyAug2013.pdf

Anyone know how much franchise taxes are ?

Maybe Tesla should sell all their cars in Texas .

 

[Ouroboros]

Exactly.

If Tesla was big enough and gave the bulk of their money to politicians more so than their employees and shareholders, they could demand a bailout funded by tax revenue so they don't go out of business. Because we all know how great bailouts are. [/snark]

Yup.

I heard somewhere that Tesla is giving their employees stock options just like Microsoft did in the 90's. Microsoft used to be the largest producer of millionaires (in their own workforce) for quite a while. Muski (the founder) is very charitable person. He wants to build a complete network of charging stations for the Tesla cars all over America... for free. There are already several stations. My friend has a Tesla and he stops and charges it halfway to his work at no cost. Musk also designed a low-cost mono-rail train system for California, and published those designs in the public domain. My son downloaded them. Musk said he wanted anyone to take the idea and implement it. Basically shared a "Tony Stark" level of design for free for anyone to pick up. Oh, and it was a few billion dollars cheaper than the suggested design by the state.

The other car manufacturers are on a warpath against Tesla. They're fighting really hard to stop the electric car revolution (not all of them, but most of them). And some of the companies even cheat in their own electric car designs to use loopholes in the law. Somehow several of the hybrids can now get a "Electric Car" white sticker as long as the battery runs the car for 30-40 miles before the gas powered generator kicks in. It's a hybrid, not an electric, but somewhere in the law they managed to get it a little thing so they can bypass it. Their true faces are starting to show.

 

[Ouroboros]

So far, all I have been able to find out about franchise taxes, is that Texas has been giving a reduction:

https://www.tscpa.org/eweb/pdf/TodaysCPA/2013/FrachiseChangesJulyAug2013.pdf

Anyone know how much franchise taxes are ?

Maybe Tesla should sell all their cars in Texas .

There's the same fight going on in Texas (if I remember right) that Tesla have to sell through dealerships and not directly. They oil companies, car manufactures, and existing dealerships don't want Tesla there.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Correction, they didn't ban sales of Tesla cars, they only banned direct sales from a manufacturer to the customers.

Yes.

Thanks for the correction....

If you go to a Ford dealership, you don't go to Ford Inc. Ford is not selling cars directly, but makes cars and can sell them through dealerships. Tesla doesn't sell through dealerships but directly to the customers. And they do so to save money for the customer.

So my correction here is just that Tesla can still make cars and sell cars, but they have to go through dealers in those states, so the car will be more expensive.

With that being said, it's silly that they can't sell directly. It saves us money.

I agree....