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New Jersey Homosexual Partnerships

Zeke316

Member
Dolly;
According to your reply, "evil is in the eye of the beholder", I can conclude that in the eyes of 87% of the people in the United States, 'Homosexuality' is EVIL.
Thank you for clearing that up for us.
 

Ardhanariswar

I'm back!
87%? eh, no.

first of all, dont believe in statistics, there are tons and you dont know what to believe...


dont twist other peoples words. its shameful and everyone knows it.


just because the majority thinks its evil doesnt mean it is. i mean, if everyone jumped off a bridge, would you?

frankly i would listen to God rather than jump. ^-^
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Zeke316 said:
Dolly;
According to your reply, "evil is in the eye of the beholder", I can conclude that in the eyes of 87% of the people in the United States, 'Homosexuality' is EVIL.
Thank you for clearing that up for us.

Can you please show us the source that says 87% of Americans think homosexuality is evil? Thank you.
 

dolly

Member
Zeke316 said:
Dolly;
According to your reply, "evil is in the eye of the beholder", I can conclude that in the eyes of 87% of the people in the United States, 'Homosexuality' is EVIL.
Thank you for clearing that up for us.

You do realize that just because more people believe it doesn't mean that it is right. In the past, the majority of white America believe that racism was exceptable because African Americans were supposedly inferior. Obviously, not only is this false, but we know racism is morally wrong. Was it not morally wrong back then just because many people believed that it was perfectly alright (morally) to discriminate based on race?
 

Zeke316

Member
Dolly;
We are not talking 'being', we are talking activity.
If nothing else, the Bible says that 'homosexual activity' is repugnant to God.....I'll stick with His authority until you can find a better one.
Nothing personal...Just my opinion.
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Zeke, can you please provide proof for your statement that 87% of Americans think homosexuality is 'evil'. Either prove it or retract it. Thank you.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Zeke,

I'm curious about that figure of 87%. It seems way out of line with other polls I've seen. Could you post your source for it?
 

dolly

Member
Zeke316 said:
Dolly;
We are not talking 'being', we are talking activity.

It doesn't matter. I was merely referring to the fact that the opinion of the general populace is not always morally right.

If nothing else, the Bible says that 'homosexual activity' is repugnant to God.....I'll stick with His authority until you can find a better one.

I have found a better one, but since you are a Christian it clearly isn't for you.
 

Ardhanariswar

I'm back!
zeke, you are expertly skipping. tell us were you got that 87% figure.

in the bible it says never a man should lie with a man.

well on the next page it says that disobeying children should be stoned.

*cough* cafeteria christians *cough*

it doesnt make sense....
 

Zeke316

Member
Gerani;
Now that you are quoting and referencing scripture, maybe you could show me where the scripture says that 'homosexual acts' are anything but EVIL. I'll wait for that reference.
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Sunstone said:
Zeke,

I'm curious about that figure of 87%. It seems way out of line with other polls I've seen. Could you post your source for it?

I'm waiting for a response about this outrageous statement as well. I've never seen a poll that asked Americans if they thought homosexuality was 'evil' but I've seen plenty of polls on the issue of same sex marriage and most of them were pretty evenly split 50/50. I'd love to see solid proof of Zeke's claim.
 

Pah

Uber all member
Maize said:
Sunstone said:
Zeke,

I'm curious about that figure of 87%. It seems way out of line with other polls I've seen. Could you post your source for it?

I'm waiting for a response about this outrageous statement as well. I've never seen a poll that asked Americans if they thought homosexuality was 'evil' but I've seen plenty of polls on the issue of same sex marriage and most of them were pretty evenly split 50/50. I'd love to see solid proof of Zeke's claim

I have found the figure 87% in regard to homosexuality but it tells a different story than what Zeke says.

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/news/allnewsbydate.asp?NewsID=616

Seven In Ten Adult Americans Support U.S. Supreme Court Overturning Same-Sex Sodomy Laws

New Witeck-Combs/Harris Interactive Research Shows Broad Public Support on Right to Privacy

Rochester, NY – May 6, 2003 – Seventy-four percent of American adults surveyed last month favor the U.S. Supreme Court overturning state laws that criminalize private, consenting sexual relations between same-sex couples, yet allows that same private conduct to occur between opposite-sex couples. This was the latest finding of a national online poll released today by Witeck-Combs Communications and Harris Interactive®.

The new survey also reveals that Americans almost equally oppose laws regulating consenting sexual relations that occur in the private homes of opposite-sex and same-sex couples. Nearly nine out of 10 Americans (87%) oppose state laws regulating private, sexual relations that are applied to opposite-sex married adult couples and almost as many (82%) oppose such laws that are applied to same-sex adult couples in a domestic partnership.

"Even when we exclude respondents who self-identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender, support for overturning state sodomy laws does not change significantly," said Darin Johnson, vice president at Witeck-Combs Communications. "It is clear that an overwhelming majority of Americans believe the Supreme Court should overturn all state laws that interfere with private sexual relations between consenting adults, whether same-sex or opposite-sex couples."

These are highlights of a nationwide survey more than 2,000 adults, of whom approximately seven percent self-identified as gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender (GLBT). The survey was conducted online between April 17 and 23, 2003 by Harris Interactive, with analysis of GLBT data provided by Witeck-Combs Communications, Inc., a strategic public relations and marketing communications firm with special expertise in GLBT issues.

"These numbers tell the same story we've been telling courts in this country for years: the vast majority of Americans support the right to privacy of all people, including gays and lesbians, and oppose anti-gay discrimination," said Kevin Cathcart, executive director of Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund, the national gay rights organization bringing the Supreme Court challenge to consensual sex laws.

Across the board, regardless of income, gender, age, region of the country, or political philosophy, Americans overwhelmingly oppose state laws that regulate sexual relations that occur in the private home of an adult same-sex couple.

Key findings from this survey include:

* 75% of self-described Republicans oppose state laws that regulate sexual relations that occur in the private home of an adult same-sex couple in a domestic partnership (as do 88% of self-labeled Democrats). In addition, seven out of 10 Americans (70%) who characterize their personal ideology as "conservative" also oppose such laws.

* Americans from all regions in the U.S. express opposition to state sodomy laws, including 76% of Southerners; 80% of Midwesterners; 88% of Westerners; and 89% of Easterners who say they oppose state laws that regulate the private, sexual relations of adult same-sex couples in a domestic partnership.

* 66% of adults over the age of 50 agree the U.S. Supreme Court should overturn state sodomy laws that apply solely to same-sex couples.

* A majority of all American adults surveyed said same-sex couples who engage in private, consenting sexual relations should not be denied basic rights and opportunities: 82% opposed denial of health benefits to a couple; 87% opposed denial of rental housing; 74% opposed denial of certain jobs, such as teaching; and 59% opposed denial of the right to adopt children.

"These results are not surprising," commented David Krane, senior vice president at Harris Interactive. "They closely align with findings from previous studies we have conducted with Americans on privacy. The public feels very strongly that the government should not interfere with matters related to their personal privacy – and particularly, as this study shows, with their choices related to sexual practices."

On March 26, 2003, the U.S. Supreme Court heard oral arguments testing Texas same-sex sodomy statute. This case, Lawrence v. Texas, will examine the constitutionality of Texas law (and other similar state laws) that imposes criminal charges on same-sex couples who have consenting sexual relations in the privacy of their home.

Editorial Note: The national online survey was conducted between April 17 and 23, 2003 – and therefore, most of the data was collected prior to the prominent media attention given to Senator Rick Santorum’s (R-PA) interview last month with the Associated Press on sodomy laws and sexual privacy

and here

New Poll Shows Lingering Unease with Gay Issues
Wednesday, December 30th 1998

WASHINGTON -- The Washington Post in association with the Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation and Harvard University recently concluded a national survey gauging American reactions to homosexuality.




The results, say the newspaper, show that while attitudes towards gay men and women have changed dramatically, most people remain deeply conflicted and uncomfortable on the subject of gay acceptance.

The pollsters went out of their way to get around some of the wording problems that seem to plague other national surveys on subjects of gay tolerance. The wildly divergent answers to differently phrased questions underscore the volatility of public sentiment.

For example, a majority of those polled, 57 percent, still say homosexuality is unacceptable. (29% say it is unacceptable, but should be tolerated by society; 28% say it is unacceptable and should not be tolerated). When the question is phrased as "gay sex," opposition surges from 57 percent to 72 percent.

The Post noted most Americans are willing to grant gay men and women basic rights such as freedom from harassment or the right to earn a living, but oppose laws they construe as giving moral sanction to gay behavior.

In the national poll, 87 percent said gay people should have equal rights in terms of job opportunities. Asked if sexual relations between consenting adults of any sex should be legallized, a much smaller majority, 55 percent, said yes, while 34 percent answered no. When pollsters reminded people that adults could be prosecuted for engaging in these activities in their own homes, more than half of those who said homosexuality should be illegal changed their minds.

Gay civil rights groups say signs of American ambivalence on the subject demonstrates that outright resistance to homosexuality is yielding and that a hesitancy to condemn gay people shows movement toward acceptance. But the poll once again demonstrates a deep reluctance on the part of most people to embrace something they do not understand.

Only 23 percent support the idea of gay marriage, the Post says. "Marriage is between a man and a woman," said one of the participants in a focus group moderated by the newspaper. "You can't just open it up to whatever kind of person you're living with."

The Post said the answers to most questions posed to the focus group were "qualified, measured, adjusted." In each, participants in the group "displayed a struggle with modern pressures to change. They were accustomed to seeing gay characters in sitcoms and movies, and they had absorbed corporate credos of tolerance at work. But many of them resisted becoming...the open minded, multicultural American of the future," said the newspaper.

Addendum -

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week733/release.html

In a poll of evangelicals, 87% of African-American evangelicals say moral values are on the wrong tract. I did not find a figure (it might be in the article, and I just missed it) of how many Afirican-Americans are considered evangelical.
 

Ardhanariswar

I'm back!
so it says in leviticus chapter 18:22 (from The New American Bible)

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination.

and it says in leviticus chapter 19:27 (from the New American Bible)

Do not clip you hear at the temples, nor trim the edges of your beard.

----

if you want to get technical, no man can lie with a male as a man can lie with a woman. men dont have vaginas. but they do have butts, but its not exact.
and of course we would like to be precise.



tell me zeke, do you trim you bread?
 

Zeke316

Member
The 87%...
This is the percentage of Americans who claim to be 'Christians'. ... As Christians, we believe the bible to be THE Word of God and Jesus Christ 'THE Word of God Incarnate.
Our doctrine on all subjects is based on what God has said in His Word.
This is NOT a Pole....I Never said it was a POLE. .... Christians do not take their stance on moral issues based on the highest % of opinion.
Homosexuality, according to the Head Of Our Church, God and His Son Jesus Christ, is EVIL and Wicked and worthy of death. [Leviticus 20:13, 2Timothy 3:15, Romans 1:27,32, etc.
We, the 87%, who declare that Jesus Christ is our Lord, understand that His Word shall not pass away and we all will be judged by His Word.
If people, who claim to be Christians, want to steal for a living, don't look to the scriptures to justify your behavior. ... Likewise the 'HOMOSEXUAL'.... .Don't look to the scriptures for confirmation that your practices are NOT EVIL, just because you enjoy your SIN. ...Call it what it is...SIN, and the God of the scriptures, HATES it. Psalm5:5
Have a noce day.
 

Ardhanariswar

I'm back!
um, many of my christian friends dont like homosexuality, but are still for their marriages to be recognized because its anyones right.

many christians believe that.


its like assuming all germans are nazis. sheesh.
 

Pah

Uber all member
Zeke316 said:
The 87%...
This is the percentage of Americans who claim to be 'Christians'. ... As Christians, we believe the bible to be THE Word of God and Jesus Christ 'THE Word of God Incarnate.
Our doctrine on all subjects is based on what God has said in His Word.
This is NOT a Pole....I Never said it was a POLE. .... Christians do not take their stance on moral issues based on the highest % of opinion.

Hey Zeke, take a look at the poll of evangelicals

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week733/release.html

]Poll: America's Evangelicals More and More Mainstream But Insecure
Diversity, Differences Mark Their Views on Society, Culture, Politics


Washington, DC - Three-quarters of all evangelicals say they feel part of mainstream American society, but three-quarters of all evangelicals also believe they are a minority under siege and must fight for their voices to be heard. A March 2004 poll by Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research Inc. for RELIGION & ETHICS NEWSWEEKLY and U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT shows that America's evangelicals are comfortable with society around them, but not completely so, and their social and political views are notably diverse.

While a strong majority of white evangelicals oppose gay marriage (84%) and civil unions (73%), most evangelicals (52%) say they would prefer to rely on state law to prohibit gay marriage rather than amend the U.S. Constitution. Less than half of white evangelicals (48%) say that a candidate's support for gay marriage would disqualify him or her from getting their votes.

There are important differences among black, white and Hispanic evangelicals on political and moral questions. About 69% of white evangelicals say they are Republicans or lean Republican, while 84% of African American evangelicals identify themselves as Democrats or lean Democrat. Roughly one-in-five likely white evangelical voters (23%) say they are Democrats or lean Democrat.

The media often look to Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell to speak on behalf of all evangelicals, yet evangelicals give Falwell a marginally unfavorable rating (average rating 44 out of a possible 100), and Robertson receives only a marginally favorable rating (55 out of a possible 100). In contrast, evangelical leaders Franklin Graham and James Dobson are both viewed very favorably by evangelicals (73 out of a possible 100), and Pope John Paul II is viewed more favorably by all evangelicals (59 out of a possible 100) than either Falwell or Robertson.

Contrary to popular assumptions, not all American evangelicals attend mega-churches. Only 14% belong to congregations that are larger than 1000 members, the same as non-evangelical Protestants, and almost one-in-five evangelicals (19%) attend a church with less than 100 members.

There are notable discrepancies between how evangelicals think members of the wider society view them, how they view themselves, and how society says it views evangelicals. A strong majority (72%) of all evangelicals feel the mass media are hostile to their moral and spiritual values. Almost half (48%) believe that evangelical Christians are looked down upon by most Americans. And 75% of all evangelicals say they must fight to make their voices heard. In contrast, less than half (46%) of non-evangelicals think evangelicals must fight to be heard, and only 35% of non-evangelicals think Americans looks down on evangelicals.

Despite their involvement in international issues such as human rights and religious freedom, evangelicals rank military strength (40%), controlling weapons of mass destruction (34%) and fighting terrorism (30%) as significantly more important than relief efforts (14%) or helping to improve the standard of living in less developed countries (9%).

While white evangelicals are almost evenly divided among themselves over whether the country is going in the right direction (44%) or is on the wrong track (45%), all African Americans say overwhelmingly (81%) that the country has gotten off on the wrong track. There is much more agreement among evangelicals and the country as a whole when asked whether moral values are on the wrong track. More than three-quarters of white evangelicals, 94% of African American evangelicals, 87% of all African Americans, 74% of all Hispanics, and 71% of all Americans think moral values are seriously on the wrong track.


An overwhelming majority of all evangelicals (84%) believe that personal faith in Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation, compared with 38% of Catholics and 56% of non-evangelical Protestants. Just half of white evangelicals, however, believe that only born-again Christians go to heaven, and even fewer black evangelicals (42%) say they believe only born-again Christians will go to heaven.

Only white evangelicals put moral values first among their domestic concerns. More than a third of white evangelicals (37%) say moral values are of most concern, while only 16% of all African Americans and 13% of all Hispanics say that moral values worry them most. Forty-one percent of all African Americans and 34% of all Hispanics worry most about the economy and jobs, but among white evangelicals the number is 25%. Yet on many other domestic pocketbook issues such as health care and Social Security, the level of concern among white evangelicals is very similar to that of all other Americans.

By evangelical the survey means EITHER respondents who indicated that they are Protestant or another Christian religious preference other than Roman Catholic, Orthodox or Mormon and who indicated they would say they are a fundamentalist, evangelical, charismatic or Pentecostal Protestant OR respondents who indicated that they are Protestant or another Christian religious preference other than Roman Catholic, Orthodox or Mormon who do not consider themselves liberal or mainline and call themselves a born-again Christian. This is not the only definition of evangelical, of course, but it does define the core of the evangelical community.

The nationwide survey of 1610 adults, with over-samples of white evangelicals, African Americans, and Hispanics, was conducted March 16 - April 4, 2004 and has a margin of error of plus or minus 2.5%. Additional analysis was provided by John Green, professor of political science and director of the Ray C. Bliss Institute of Applied Politics at the University of Akron, and Robert Wuthnow, professor of sociology and director of the Center for the Study of Religion at Princeton University.


Not even 100% of them believe homosexual marriage is evil. let alone homosexual acts. Not all the Christians on Religious Forums believe homosexuality is evil.

When you quote "facts" in error right alongside of the Word of God, it makes me think you are making error in what you read in the Bible.
 

anders

Well-Known Member
Zeke,

Do you really mean that 87% of all Americans stone their disobedient children and never wear clothes of a polyester/cotton mix?

If you reject the Old Testament, when did you last sell your garment to buy a sword (Lk 2:36)?

Obviously, you think that the Archbishop of the Church of Sweden (which is Lutheran) is no Christian. He, KG Hammar, Doctor of Divinity, says, "‎It is rather uninteresting if the love is directed towards a person of the same sex. Where love is, there God is." The majority of the delegates of the Council of the Church of Sweden approved of a law allowing same-sex parterships. In all probability, they all "claim to be 'Christians'."
 
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