New Jersey Homosexual Partnerships

[Green Gaia]

By the way...comparing animal activity to justify human conduct...How about all the carnivours...Do you reccommend we start eating human flesh? After all, the animals do it.

I think you're referring to cannibalism, not carnivorous animals. You are carnivorous unless you're a vegetarian.

 

[Green Gaia]

For all you posters who have a problem with the God of the bible having laws prohibiting all sorts of behavior...either agree that God has the sovereign authority to put limits on our behavior or admit that you believe in a god of your own making. ...

No, it means we don't agree with your ideas about God.

About the "Lord" in Article 7, our founding fathers would have struck it from the document if they felt as antagonistic against the God of the Bible, as you all do. .. The fact of the matter is that they quoted from the Scriptures often. They understood that there was a God Who is in control of His creation.

So do most people, however not everyone, not even all people who people in God or a Greater Force, is Christian.

There are many sins identified in the bible. ... We are all guilty of most of them. .. Don't try to justify your particular sin by declassifying it from the list. .. Just fess up and call it what it is... To say obvious sinful practices are not sinful, weakens your argument and destroys your credibility.

Can we keep personal insults out of this please? Saying someone has no credibility because you don't agree with them is respectful and will not be tolerated on this forum. Please remember that not everyone here is going to agree with your beliefs. If you can't respect someone else's opinions, perhaps this isn't the forum for you. No one is here to convert or preach, we're here to share information, debate and discuss with each other in a respectful manner.

 

[Zeke316]

Maize;
Telling someone "you better get use to it", is not a proper comment in a debate forum. ..If you cannnot treat someone , who disagrees with you, you had better try another forum.

 

[Green Gaia]

Maize;
Telling someone "you better get use to it", is not a proper comment in a debate forum. ..If you cannnot treat someone , who disagrees with you, you had better try another forum.

LMAO! My comment was in reference to the fact that society changes her mind about things. Change is inevitable, do you dispute this?

 

[Runt]

Zeke316, I think as a moderator Maize knows what is and is not proper board etiquette. Furthermore, it didn't sound like it was intended as an insult at all. It wasn't even patronizing. I don't see what the problem is.

 

[dolly]

Gah, I need to come back more often. O.O


Well, thanks everyone for addressing Zeke. I'd just like to add that the perhaps you (Zeke) should study the Founding Fathers a bit more as they are far more relevant to modern day US than the pilgrims. The majority of them were against mixing Church and State, and many of them made some rather cruel statements concerning Christianity, especially when mixed with politics.

 

[Sunstone]

In recent years, there has been a tendency on the part of some well meaning evangelical preachers to find in the words of the American founding fathers support for the notion that America is “a Christian nation”. Unfortunately, the preachers who have been most active in this effort have also lacked the training that historians have in weighing and evaluating historical evidence. Hence, the preachers have all too often been satisfied with evidence taken out of context for their claims, or with incomplete evidence. I’ve gathered a few quotes below that I think express somewhat better the complexity involved in how the founding fathers thought about religion:

“I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology.” [Thomas Jefferson, private letter to Dr. Woods]

“If not an absolute atheist, he had no belief in a future existence. All his ideas of obligation or retribution were bounded by the present life.” [President John Quincy Adams on Thomas Jefferson, 1831]

“The number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the state.” [James Madison, 1819]

“... I beg you be persuaded that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution.” [George Washington, to United Baptists Churches of Virginia, 1789]

“Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.” [Thomas Jefferson, 1814]

“When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not care to support it, so that its professors are obliged to call for the help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.” [Ben Franklin, 1754]

“[About the Trinity] Tom, had you and I been 40 days with Moses, and beheld the great God, and even if God himself had tried to tell us that three was one . . . and one equals three, you and I would never have believed it. We would never fall victims to such lies.” [John Adams, private letter to Thomas Jefferson]

“I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies.” [Benjamin Franklin]

“An alliance or coalition between Government and religion cannot be too carefully guarded against ... religion will exist in greater purity, without (rather) than with the aid of government.” [James Madison, 1822]

Some of the founding fathers were Christian, some where deists, and some seemed to care not at all for religion. What they founded was one of the first secular states in the history of the world.

 

[anders]

It is no news that I agree with you, pah.

I can't understand the pick-and-choose way. Some people use the Bible to condemn for example homosexuality and abortions (it has been sufficently demonstrated in other topics that neither is forbidden in the Bible), yet they eat shrimps and pork and wear polyester/cotton-mix clothes etc. etc.

 

[Irenicas]

Very true.

Also, I think that Christians as a whole put too much emphasis on the "accepted" Bible. The gospels in the Bible are not the only ones, and others tell very different stories. I suggest you look at the Gospel of St. Thomas.

His disciples asked him and said to him, "Do you want us to fast? How should we pray? Should we give to charity? What diet should we observe?"
Jesus said, "Don't lie, and don't do what you hate, because all things are disclosed before heaven. After all, there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed, and there is nothing covered up that will remain undisclosed."

He doesn't, I notice, mention homosexuality.

 

[Ardhanariswar]

homosexuals are still going to be existant in this world. they are still going to hook up, and have long term relationships, and they will get into a married type relationship, no matter how much you push against this.

we are still going to exist. and like anyother human, we continue to live life to the fullest and love. i believe its not sin, and i beleve that God believes its no sin.

all we want is our rights to be recognized. is that evil? no...


but whatever.

 

[Zeke316]

Gerani;

To answer your question...My answer is [...OF COURSE, IT IS ]
Just my opinion... Whatever..

 

[Green Gaia]

Zeke, what is your legal reasoning for saying that a group of people wanting to be treated as equals is evil?

 

[Pah]

Gerani;

To answer your question [Gerani's question -all we want is our rights to be recognized. is that evil?] ...My answer is [...OF COURSE, IT IS ]
Just my opinion... Whatever..

Your opinion is that all the citizens of all the "free" world are evil???????

Well, I don't share that opinion. I don't think you are evil because you want the right to worship as you do. I don't think you are evil for exercising your right of free speech on Religious Forums. But that's my opinion.

Now if you stand in the way of recognizing homosexual rights, you are at risk of losing those freedoms I just mentioned. But that's my opinion

 

[Zeke316]

Hey Folks;
Help me understand something... I have an acquaintance who sells dope for a living... All of his clients are willing buyers of his product. ...He's not hurting anyone, just trying to make a good living.... Now, my question is this: .... Is what he's doing... EVIL?
Thanks for your opinion.

 

[Lightkeeper]

Hey Folks;
Help me understand something... I have an acquaintance who sells dope for a living... All of his clients are willing buyers of his product. ...He's not hurting anyone, just trying to make a good living.... Now, my question is this: .... Is what he's doing... EVIL?
Thanks for your opinion.

***Mod Post***

Let's stay on topic.

 

[Pah]

Hey Folks;
Help me understand something... I have an acquaintance who sells dope for a living... All of his clients are willing buyers of his product. ...He's not hurting anyone, just trying to make a good living.... Now, my question is this: .... Is what he's doing... EVIL?
Thanks for your opinion.

Between this post and the previous post you made, I really don't understand your concept of EVIL (as you emphasis it).

It would be nice to know in order to answer this one.

 

[Zeke316]

Moderator;

This is on topic... People want to do what they want to do with no restraint, unless it is an activity of which they do not approve....They then become very uptight about people practicing their 'freedoms'.
Let's be consistant.

 

[Green Gaia]

Moderator;

This is on topic... People want to do what they want to do with no restraint, unless it is an activity of which they do not approve....They then become very uptight about people practicing their 'freedoms'.
Let's be consistant.

In regards to the Opening Post, it is not on topic. Please refer back to the OP if you've forgotten the topic on the thread. If there is another issue you'd like to discuss you are welcome to start a new thread. Thank you.

 

[Ardhanariswar]

selling weed has nothing to do with homosexuality. even from your point of view, they arent even on the same lines as evil.

jeez, im starting to think like a daoist.

people have thier own dharma, or vocation that they must fulfil in righteousness. you may think its bad, but who knows?

 

[dolly]

Hey Folks;
Help me understand something... I have an acquaintance who sells dope for a living... All of his clients are willing buyers of his product. ...He's not hurting anyone, just trying to make a good living.... Now, my question is this: .... Is what he's doing... EVIL?
Thanks for your opinion.

It isn't evil because evil is in the eye of th beholder.

It is, however, a horrible analogy for homosexuality. Dope does hurt people, whether the users are willing or not. Homosexuality doesn't