New Here! A Little About Myself.

[Audie]

Well I didn't mention atheism or say that I thought that about atheism.



Perhaps there is truth to this.

However, I would also argue that accepting the premise that nothing whatsoever has any greater meaning and therefore we should STOP asking "why?" to each new question is also potentially "childish". I ask "why?" because my soul burns with the question of why it all exists and whether or not any of it means anything or not. I think simply accepting that nothing has meaning because it is convenient to do so and because of a lack of evidence to the contrary is perhaps just lazy.

From an atheistic perspective I can see the lack of a need to answer the question of "why?" because from that perspective there's no NEED for a why. I am the type of person who seeks out knowledge and information so if I were an atheist my big question would probably be "how?" rather than "why?". From a theistic perspective the idea of a creator answers the "how?" but introduces the "why?"

Childish could perhaps be fitting term, but as someone who sits up at night wondering about the nature of reality I can't simply just shrug my shoulders and forget about it all and go back to my day job in the matrix, I'll always wonder.

I know you did not mention atheism. From what you say,
though, you quite clearly do not see what an atheist
prrspevtive would be. You kind of got the "why" thing
backwards, for one

You might think where the truth in what I said is, rather than
shrug it off with "perhaps" and going straight to a counterargument

Seeking answers, and all.


I will look into a more complete response if you indicate
interest.

Mean while, if @Christine or another wishes to fill in
some blanks, they are encouraged to do so.

ETA, the lie-awake does sound like mind-trap.

 

[Revoltingest]

Greetings!

The best way to overcome existential dread is to join us for the free breakfast in the RF cafeteria.

 

[Audie]

Greetings!

The best way to overcome existential dread is to join us for the free breakfast in the RF cafeteria.

Exactly.

As Kafka pointed out in "Reflections of a Dog",
the core of dog-philosophy is that
"When you have meat in your jaws,
all problems are solved, for the time being."

May be why we non-carnivores is so mixed up.

Edit- "So long as you have food in your, mouth you
have solved all questions for the time being,"

I had the idea but misquoted-

So I should be ok it does not have to be meat.

 

[metis]

So this specific term I'd never encountered. Thank you for introducing it to me.

Prior to our marriage I actually didn't think I'd become a Catholic. But I worked for a year during the RCIA process with priest (who passed away before the end of my RCIA class, I miss him deeply.) on learning Catholicism. We connected very well and he had great answers for pretty much any question I could come up with. He encouraged doubts and questioning. He considered them natural and healthy and I really thought it was a breath of fresh air and I doubt I would have become Catholic if not for him. I find most Catholics to not be so open to questions of the faith and church.... but I am afraid to openly question things like the Immaculate Conception of Mary because it's such a central part of the faith. I love the community and I love the church, but I feel scared that if I question some of these teachings I'll be effectively outcast from the church.

Ya, I hear ya, and you'll run across people like that in any faith. Personally, I have a strong dislike for the "my way or the highway" approach as you probably can tell with "My Faith Statement" at the bottom of my posts.

BTW, an excellent book that covers our ability of discernment is "May Your (Informed) Conscience Be Your Guide", although I don't know if it's currently available. If you want, I can give you a brief synopsis of what it says.

BTW, I taught the RCIA program for 14 years, and our priest has asked me to pick it up again.

 

[Revoltingest]

Exactly.

As Kafka pointed out in "Reflections of a Dog",
the core of dog-philosophy is that
"When you have meat in your jaws,
all problems are solved, for the time being."

May be why we non-carnivores is so mixed up.

And this was expanded upon with....
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Douglas Adams > Quotes > Quotable Quote

“The History of every major Galactic Civilization tends to pass through three distinct and recognizable phases, those of Survival, Inquiry and Sophistication, otherwise known as the How, Why, and Where phases. For instance, the first phase is characterized by the question 'How can we eat?' the second by the question 'Why do we eat?' and the third by the question 'Where shall we have lunch?”

― Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

 

[SeekingAnswers]

You kind of got the "why" thing
backwards, for one

Would you care to elaborate on how you meant it?

You might think where the truth in what I said is, rather than
shrug it off with "perhaps" and going straight to a counterargument

Apologies if the use of "perhaps" has offended you. What you said may very well be true, but all you included was an ambiguous statement about asking why for every response. You didn't provide anything to illustrate your claim that it is childish just that vague example so I didn't have much to go off of there.

If I said that Atheism is childish it's like just saying "No." every time religion is brought up... that wouldn't give you much to work with either.

If you have specific reasoning why existential dread is "childish" then really I am all ears. I'm not defending existential dread I am experiencing it. If there's a logical way out of it, I'm excited for it.

the lie-awake does sound like mind-trap.

"Mind-trap" isn't a term I can find anywhere so I'm not sure if this is a specific term, or if there is a specific sort of mental trap you are trying to refer to? I am curious because if there's a serious issue in my line of thinking I'd really like to be enlightened to it.

 

[SeekingAnswers]

an excellent book that covers our ability of discernment is "May Your (Informed) Conscience Be Your Guide"

Well thank you, I'll be sure to check it out

 

[osgart]

Hello Seeking! Welcome to RF!

As an atheist i am still fascinated with why questions myself as i still remain with strong spiritual inclinations. Safe to say i have no religion, but perhaps my very own self made religiosity. I grew up Catholic/Baptist and i found it easy to dismiss, but hard to shed the influences of those religious cultures. Their faith philosophies are ingrained in my mind. But i decided to see things totally for myself, and not be steered into another philosophy, or religion.

This forum is enjoyable, and full of diversity, i wish you well with it!

 

[danieldemol]

Hello everyone! I hope to have many deep and fruitful conversations with my peers here. I was raised protestant (Lutheran under ELCA) but didn't attend Church much as a family. In school I studied a few religions peripherally like Taoism, Hinduism, and a lot of old world religions. Eventually I came to the perspective of being an Agnostic Theist. I believed there must be a creator but I didn't know the nature of such a creator. Years later I married into the Roman Catholic Church and spent 2 years studying Catholicism and meeting with Priests and learned people of the faith and settled into being a Catholic. I still consider myself a Catholic and I do works with the Knights of Columbus, but I find myself doubtful of the faith and religion in general again. I find myself slipping into a sort of existential dread where I think nothing has any purpose and life itself is meaningless. I come here among you all hoping to find peers to have deep meaningful conversations with so that I might find answers that can settle both my heart and mind. Wishing you all a good day!

Hi SeekingAnswers,
Welcome to RF
I think that the way for humans to avoid existential dread is to create there own purpose.

 

[Audie]

Hi SeekingAnswers,
Welcome to RF
I think that the way for humans to avoid existential dread is to create there own purpose.

"Life's Eternal Questions"

So named because there's nobody going
to ever find the answers.

 

[Audie]

Would you care to elaborate on how you meant it?



Apologies if the use of "perhaps" has offended you. What you said may very well be true, but all you included was an ambiguous statement about asking why for every response. You didn't provide anything to illustrate your claim that it is childish just that vague example so I didn't have much to go off of there.

If I said that Atheism is childish it's like just saying "No." every time religion is brought up... that wouldn't give you much to work with either.

If you have specific reasoning why existential dread is "childish" then really I am all ears. I'm not defending existential dread I am experiencing it. If there's a logical way out of it, I'm excited for it.



"Mind-trap" isn't a term I can find anywhere so I'm not sure if this is a specific term, or if there is a specific sort of mental trap you are trying to refer to? I am curious because if there's a serious issue in my line of thinking I'd really like to be enlightened to it.

You brought up religious thinking in contrast to non,
wherein you seemed to be looking into thr dark chasm of
nothingness, no meaning, no purpose.

That via some religious framework, you might find
Answers.

I am suggesting it is quite the opposite. Religion leads
quickly to the dead end of god did it with magic.

Seeking answers of various sorts to generally quite
mundane things like, "why do we get sick?" can be
done the religious way, or via research.

I guess you know the answer.

Now, the Quest for life's persistent questions is
a bit different.

For one, the questions are framed in the human psyche
and may have little or nothing at all in the way of a
meaning or existence outside our limited range.

People have bern asking life's persistent questions for
Like, forever, and getting nowhere.

If you dont see lying awake as a sign yiu are in a "trap",
it is a vexation with no way out- liie a box canyon- except
the way you went in.

 

[dybmh]

"When you have meat in your jaws,
all problems are solved, for the time being."

This conflicts with Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Food is at the bottom of the pyramid. Self-Actualization is at the top. Being fed is just the most basic of human needs.

"all problems are solved"? No way...

Maybe what you are saying is, Humans are dogs?

If you're talking about men. You have a good point. But Humans are not dogs.

ref: Maslow's hierarchy of needs - Wikipedia

also, I think you meant to tag @ChristineM , right?

And finally, Good Morning, Audie. I hope you're well

 

[dybmh]

can be
done the religious way

Here's the thing. You are assuming that you know the religious way. I propose that you don't.

Another Douglas Adams quote comes to mind. The quote is about space. But it's true for Religion as well.

"[Religion] is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to [Religion]."

 

[SeekingAnswers]

That via some religious framework, you might find
Answers.

Mmmm.. not necessarily. It might have seemed that way but it's actually my disillusionment with "religion" that's causing the existential concern. I wasn't specifically looking for a religious answer, just for answers that might have worked for others.

For one, the questions are framed in the human psyche
and may have little or nothing at all in the way of a
meaning or existence outside our limited range.

True. Very true. This does sometimes help me to think about, but doesn't help in the long term.

This thread did teach me a lesson about existential dread though. (Not sure it's a good one, but hey!) Humor and distraction are good bandaids for an existential crisis!

 

[dybmh]

@SeekingAnswers, @metis

Here is the Google dictionary definition of catholic ( lower case c ).

Maybe I'm catholic too?

cath·o·lic
/ˈkaTH(ə)lik/
adjective
adjective: catholic

1. including a wide variety of things; all-embracing.
   "her tastes are pretty catholic"
   synonyms: diverse, diversified, wide, broad, broad-based, eclectic, indiscriminate; More
   open-minded, broad-minded, liberal, tolerant, undogmatic, flexible, unbigoted, unprejudiced, unsectarian, ecumenical;
   general, universal, widespread, global, worldwide, comprehensive, all-encompassing all-embracing, all-inclusive, unlimited

 

[SeekingAnswers]

@SeekingAnswers, @metis

Here is the Google dictionary definition of catholic ( lower case c ).

Maybe I'm catholic too?

cath·o·lic
/ˈkaTH(ə)lik/
adjective
adjective: catholic

1. including a wide variety of things; all-embracing.
   "her tastes are pretty catholic"
   synonyms: diverse, diversified, wide, broad, broad-based, eclectic, indiscriminate; More
   open-minded, broad-minded, liberal, tolerant, undogmatic, flexible, unbigoted, unprejudiced, unsectarian, ecumenical;
   general, universal, widespread, global, worldwide, comprehensive, all-encompassing all-embracing, all-inclusive, unlimited

wat

 

[Rival]

Could we please refrain from turning this into a debate. Thanks.

 

[ChristineM]

Here's the thing. You are assuming that you know the religious way. I propose that you don't.

Another Douglas Adams quote comes to mind. The quote is about space. But it's true for Religion as well.

"[Religion] is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to [Religion]."

Are you saying religion is universal?

Actually religion is quite easy to understand, and i know @Audie has a wonderful insight.

 

[dybmh]

wat

Sorry. That was a weird thing to say. I am weird. Again apologies...

My point is this:

You mentioned that you are sometimes afraid to ask questions because you are afraid of effectively being outcast from the church.

@metis was encouraging you; asking questions is not a problem in Catholicism because of discernment. I was attempting to support this from a different, admittedly weird, perspective.

First: If catholic, ( Lower case c ) means open-minded, then maybe you should feel good about asking your questions. Maybe knowing the dictionary definition is like having a new tool in your toolbox to use in case you have questions but are concerned about asking them. My intention was to give you this tool, so you can say to yourself, if you are afraid to ask something, "By asking questions, I am being catholic, open-minded. No one in the Catholic Church should cast me out for being catholic, open-minded." Depending on the situation and the company you are in, you might be able to share the dictionary definition to support others in the Catholic Church who have questions too.

When I said maybe I'm catholic too, I was poking fun at myself. Cause I like all religions, and in a way I believe in all religions. I don't practice all religions. But I believe all of them have value. In practice it's comical. Because, who believes in all religions? I do. It's comical in a foolish childish way.

But, technically, by the Google definition. Maybe I'm catholic too.

I was trying to help. I thought it was relevant. Sorry for being weird.

 

[dybmh]

Are you saying religion is universal?

No.

That's not what I meant. Sorry.